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Thursday, May 24. 2007

International Conference about the Collapse of Europe

Posted by Joerg Wolf in Transatlantic Relations on Thursday, May 24. 2007


California's Pepperdine University is hosting a conference about the Eurabia nonsense. Some of the topics of discussions have a few questionmarks, but it is clear in which direction they are going. Some samples:
1. What has been the role of Islam and the EU bureaucracy in fostering collapse?
2. Eurabia: Is Muslim domination of Europe inevitable?
3. Is Europe doomed to continued economic stagnation?
4. Civil Rights or Global Jihad? Are Muslims exploiting the democratic process to erode and destroy European democracy?
5. Collapse of Confidence; How much have Europeans Given Up on Their Own Civilization?
6. The end of the European Enlightenment and the growth of a closed thought society.
7. Europe’s post-Christian society and its mirror in the United States.
8. What steps can be taken in the United States to address the problems of Europe?
Dear readers, would you describe this conference setup as Anti-Europeanism and Islamophobia?
I am surprised that they don't have a panel about Rapture Readiness.

The list of speakers is extremely one-sided and includes many prominent supporters of the Eurabia myth. Wasn't California supposed to be liberal? What happened to academic standards of listening to both sides? The Polish consulate in New York got into trouble, when an NGO organised a discussion with Tony Judt about the Israel lobby in one of the consulate's rooms. The event was cancelled, but this conference probably will not get canceled because it is about Muslims and Europe rather than about Jews and Israel.

More criticism in Gideon Rachman's Financial Times Blog:
If you happen to be passing though Malibu next month, why not pop into an intriguing-sounding conference at Pepperdine University on "The Collapse of Europe". One of the early sessions is entitled - "Eurabia: Is Muslim domination of Europe inevitable?" My answer to this is "No" it's not inevitable. In fact, given that the Muslim population of Europe is just 4% at the moment, I would say it's highly unlikely. But don't trying telling that to an audience of American conservatives. The idea that Europe is about to be submerged by the Muslim hordes seems to be almost received wisdom over there. It is certainly a notion that has launched a great many books.
Related posts in the Atlantic Review: Financial Times: "US Prophets of Europe's Doom are Half Wrong"
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Europhobia meets Islamaphobia or much-needed debate?
The Atlantic Review has a new post on the Eurabia thing. Apparently California’s Pepperdine University is hosting a conference on the topic. Up for debate will be such points as: 1. What has been the role of Islam and the EU bureaucracy in foster... Comments ()
Weblog: WSI Brussels Blog
Tracked: May 24, 13:42

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David - #1 - 2007-05-24 13:50 - (Reply)

Wow, a real hate-fest on the beach! The lineup is a true rogues gallery of wingnuts - but I'll just focus on one: Dennis Prager. Prager has used his syndicated columns to spread hatred against Muslims for some time. Most recently he has attacked the first elected Muslim congressman, Keith Ellison (D-Minnesota) , comparing him to a terrorist because he took an oath on the Koran instead of the Bible.

This crowd is representative of the authoritarian right, who use racism and 9/11 hysteria in their effort to transform America into a police state.

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Pat Patterson - #2 - 2007-05-24 17:12 - (Reply)

Not to deflate the issue but Pepperdine is a private school that also last year hosted a conference by the Jesus Seminar. That name might be misleading as the thrust of that conference is the study and and advocacy of the idea that there is very little of the authentic Jesus in the New Testament. Pepperdine is not the sponsor or is it endorsing this conference which is under the aegis of the American Freedom Alliance and the Council for Democracy and Tolerance. The campus is on a hillside overlooking an unobstructed view of the Pacific and they make a ton of money by providing vacilities for any variety of conferences.

The issue over Rep. Ellison was that he wanted to take his oath with his hand on the Koran in the House itself, which according to protocol is done simply swearing an oath en masse to the Constitution. Without any Bibles, Korans, Books of Mormom or any other props. Some congressmen even omit the "So help me God" and seem to suffer no ill effects. Ellison actually apologized to the House when he realized that his attempt violated protocol and seemed perfectly happy with the numerous publicity shots of him holding the Koran and reenacting his oath in the Rotunda. Which is where the idea of an individual oath taking with hand on book comes from not Congressional protocol.

Slightly off-topic but Rep. Ellison absolutely refused to answer any questions concerning the Jefferson Koran when it was pointed out that Jefferson had liberally rearranged passsages and deleted those he didn't like.

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JW-Atlantic Review - #2.1 - 2007-05-24 19:42 - (Reply)

It's great to have you as our California correspondent!

I know they just provided the space, but that is the same with the Polish institute and Judt. It always falls back on the host (space provider).

Peperdine university is written big on the program.

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bob - #3 - 2007-05-24 19:46 - (Reply)

I would posit that the conference is neither a celebration of bigotry or anit-Europeanism. It is more of a thought experiment of the worst case scenario and its consequences for American security and foreign policy. Granted most of the speakers seem to be convinced of the Eurabia possibility, but hey the majority are journalists and not academics; not to disparage their opinions, just noting they get paid to be sensationalist and provoking.

How can you run a conference about a particular topic, if half the speakers do not admit the validity/existence of the topic? It can be done provided that the participants behave, but this is not an academic conference. Its an organization with a specific view point.

"Rapture readiness"...Tony Judt being oppressed by those filthy ZioniSSt Joose...damn, someone is a little snarky today. Why in God's name would the Polish government want to get tied up in the Walt and Mearscheimer controversy, considering their history? The Poles want the American government to lift the visa requirement and a slew of editorials wont help them achieve that. Every special interest group, either racial or ideological, does this or at least attempts to. Here, the consulate decided that the twenty grand was not adequate compensation for the potential wave of bad press and private government lobbying.

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JW-Atlantic Review - #3.1 - 2007-05-24 20:02 - (Reply)

"consequences for American security and foreign policy"

Hardly any of the speakers is qualified to discuss that.

"How can you run a conference about a particular topic, if half the speakers do not admit the validity/existence of the topic?"

a) The topic is supposed to be "The collapse of Europe?"
There is a questionmark? If there is a question, then there should be people arguing both sides.
b) You could have run a conference in 2002 about whether Iraq has WMD. And if all speakers say yes, it is pretty boring and fateful.


"someone is a little snarky today."

Guilty as charged. You caught me. ;-)

"Why in God's name would the Polish government want to get tied up in the Walt and Mearscheimer controversy, considering their history?"

They don't. They just wanted to earn some money by having other people use their facilities. Just like Peperdine did. see Pat's comment.

"The Poles want the American government to lift the visa requirement and a slew of editorials wont help them achieve that."

Yep. Peperdine is in a better position, because there is not an much of an Anti-Islamophia or Anti-Eurobashing lobby in the US.

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Anonymous - #4 - 2007-05-24 20:48 - (Reply)

"How can you run a conference about a particular topic, if half the speakers do not admit the validity/existence of the topic?"

a) The topic is supposed to be "The collapse of Europe?"
There is a questionmark? If there is a question, then there should be people arguing both sides.

There is no question mark. The topic of the conference is predicated on the eventual collapse of Europe.
There are dumb conferences and panel discussions all the damn time, where the participants are all ideologically united. Ever suffered through the inanity of a panel discussion on 'the feasibility of normative progression for the implementation of an enforceable international legal standard for sustainable development' with provinical Dutch academics? No one could define 'sustainable development' or agree on what basis to incorporate our new legal norm, but they talked and talked...Everyone there didnt need to be convinced about 'sustainable development' or the need to codify it somehow, they already were. Same thing here. Same thing at the New School. Happens all the time. Dont really understand the fuss.

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Bill L - #5 - 2007-05-25 01:04 - (Reply)

What sloppy thinking! Anti-Europeaniam? Islamophobia? You just name-call ideas you don't like. Let's just bite off the matter by calling it "nonsense" and "bigotry."

That way you don't have to support your opinion with facts and reason. Cute.

Any discussion about the future of Europe that might not see its future as bright and superceding your vision of declining America is a thought crime in your eyes.

Where do you get that this is anti-Europeanism? Where is the charicature of Europeans in it? Where is the denigration of Europeans as a group, as degenerate or inferior?

You can't get it through your head that any negative comment or merely unhappy prediction about Europe is not anti-Europeanism. Why? The mere prediction of European society coming to an end is some sort of offense?

You MUST be nationalist then. Only a nationalist makes it an article of faith that his group is on the ascendency against some hated rival group. Normal people would just be saddened to hear others predict their society's end.

You see no anti-Americanism in a lot of real bigoted trash talk from Europe. Ditch the double standard if you want to think straight.

My, you do a nice job of promoting transatatlantic good will. But then I don't think that is really what you're trying to do.

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Fuchur - #5.1 - 2007-05-25 13:35 - (Reply)

[i]What sloppy thinking! Anti-Europeaniam? Islamophobia? [/i]

I see. So already the suggestion that some idea might be anti-European or Islamophobic is "sloppy thinking".

[i]You just name-call ideas you don't like. [/i]

Isn't that a bit rich coming from a guy who just started his comment by name-calling Joerg's idea "sloppy thinking"?

[i]That way you don't have to support your opinion with facts and reason. [/i]

And what a wealth of facts and reason your comment provides...

[i]Any discussion about the future of Europe that might not see its future as bright and superceding your vision of declining America is a thought crime in your eyes.[/i]

Cheap strawman. Don't put words in Joerg's mouth. Joerg does not claim that Europe's future is supercedingly bright nor does he claim that America is declining. And the accusation that Joerg would treat differing opinions as "thought crimes" is particularly silly, given the wide range of opinion he gives room to in his blog.

[i]Where do you get that this is anti-Europeanism?[/i]

Right. I guess when old Osama preaches that the degenerate Western societies will fail, you perceive this also as legitimate criticism. And you will "just be saddened" that he predicts our societies' end...

[i]You MUST be nationalist then. [/i]

Great logic.

[i]You see no anti-Americanism in a lot of real bigoted trash talk from Europe.[/i]

But Bill! Can't you get it through your head that any negative comment or merely unhappy prediction about America is not anti-Americanism?

[i]My, you do a nice job of promoting transatatlantic good will. But then I don't think that is really what you're trying to do.[/i]

Well, your comment doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe that's really not what you're trying to do...

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Jun - #6 - 2007-05-26 08:01 - (Reply)

[I]In fact, given that the Muslim population of Europe is just 4% at the moment....[/I]

[B]Muslims in Europe: Country guide[/B]

Islam is widely considered Europe's fastest growing religion, with immigration and above average birth rates leading to a rapid increase in the Muslim population.

[B]The exact number of Muslims is difficult to establish however, as census figures are often questioned and many countries choose not to compile such information anyway.[/B]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm

Duh.

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Migeru - #7 - 2007-05-28 15:35 - (Reply)

Wasn't California supposed to be liberal?California is also a hotbed of religious fundamentalism, and it's full of Marines. It's a large, varied state.What happened to academic standards of listening to both sides?You don't seriously think this is a bona fide academic conference? And, anyway, academic conferences are generally for people who agree to discuss a topic among themselves. He-said-she-said "fairness" is for FOX news.

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Metatone - #8 - 2007-05-28 16:14 - (Reply)

Good job bringing this to notice, Joerg. Since you spend a lot more time interacting with USians than I do these days I'm sure you already know how many of them take the Eurabia thesis as gospel...

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Don S - #9 - 2007-05-28 18:14 - (Reply)

There are relatively few test cases for the 'collapse' of a civilisation, and most of those we don't have much data on the causes thereof.

It seems to me that the most recent cases are the Ottomans and the Chinese, possibly also the Moghuls in India and Pakistan.

I think the common factor is a long period of relative decline followed by a strong push from outside.

Many more times we see a pattern where a civilisation slumps for a shorter period, then allows the alien ideas in and picks the best from that, and recovers.

Europe may fit either pattern (or neither), and it's far too early to tell at this point. Trends are usually a misleadign indicator rather than a good predictor. I believe history to be fundamentally discontinous rather than the other way.

Utter societal collapse seems to be the exception rather than the rule and I won't bet the life savings on a European collapse in my lifetime. So the Pepperdine conference is really just psuedointellectual Steynism....

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Zyme - #9.1 - 2007-05-29 12:35 - (Reply)

In the 15th and the 16th century you could say a good deal of Europe was threatened by Islam. Southern Spain, many mediterranean isles and most of south-eastern Europe already was living under the rule of the Koran.

Clearly they wanted more when marching towards Vienna. The clerical Rome mustered troops from all over the remaining parts and pushed them back. We would do so again if the need arose.

But far from it: The turks are actually working very hard to adjust their entire legal system to the EU´s directives, even before they are a member :)
To believe that Europe´s order with all its homogeneous societies would be threatened by a minority means to neglect the entire European history.

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veronica - #10 - 2007-10-24 14:40 - (Reply)

Over 1000 mosques just in England and that is not counting houses that are termed mosques to save on paying certain taxes.
Muslims are the most common sight now in most European countries, yet the true numbers are guarded like an official state secret.
But we've started to believe our own lying eyes.
Riots in Amsterdam, riot in Brussels and that's just october.
It's no accident that so called right wing parties are on the rise when politicians won't even dicuss the I word...immigration.
For fear i guess of the people finding out that the mass of immigrants are not from the EU at all most are from Pakistan and North Africa and we need more of these like a hole in the head.
America is quickly climbing into the very same boat that Europe has.
The empire state building lit up green for islam!
Believe me. you will live to regret such a move!
Give an inch demands will follow for showing such weaknesses.

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LibsRLosers - #11 - 2009-01-31 01:11 - (Reply)

"Wasn't California supposed to be liberal?"

What the FUCK does that mean?? You fucking worthless little leftists will be receiving your comeuppance sooner then you little asshole realize.

Chow!

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