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Wednesday, March 21. 2007Germany's Small FreedomsPosted by Joerg Wolf in German Politics on Wednesday, March 21. 2007
Writing for German Joys, Ed Philp looks at initiatives against "small freedoms" in Germany, i.e. against the relatively liberal attitudes towards smoking, maximum speed limits on the autobahn, the age of legal beer and wine consumption, and the sale of violent video games.
Ed wonders "how is Germany ever going to convince North American exchange students to spend a year over here without dangling the lure of legal access to liquor in front of them?" Ed appreciates that he can still drink a beer in public and that he could watch some second-rate prime-time nudity on TV, if he wanted to: "Even if these particular aspects don’t interest me, that level of liberalism toward social freedoms does." According to Ed, "Germany’s small freedoms seem to counterbalance limitations to ‘big’ freedoms, in contrast to the United States, which takes the opposite approach." Unfortunately, he does not elaborate, but in the comments section of German Joys he mentions home schooling as an example of "big freedom." Dialog International writes that "US Evangelicals Demand German Home Schooling." And even the State Department's report on "Human Rights Practices in Germany" points out: The legal obligation that children attend a school, confirmed by the Constitutional Court in May and the European Court of Justice in October, and the related bar on home schooling, was a problem for some groups. Generally, state authorities have permitted such groups to establish charter‑type schools.Two interesting comments at Dialog International: Potsdam Amerikanerin links to a study in International Review of Education, which points out that "Home education is permitted in some form or other in all the European countries studied except Germany." And Little Andy (blog) wonders if the home schooling supporters would continue to criticize Germany, if Muslim fundamentalist parents would make use of a legalization of home schooling.
Comments (31)
Defined tags for this entry: Civil Liberties, Education, Freedom, Germany, Human Rights, Moral Values
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- #1 - 2007-03-22 06:31 - (Reply)
I wonder how Mr. Spock would understand Ed's quote: "Germany’s small freedoms seem to counterbalance limitations to ‘big’ freedoms, in contrast to the United States, which takes the opposite approach." Comments ()
Fuchur
- #1.1 - 2007-03-22 13:55 - (Reply)
"Germany's society is far more progressive and higher organized than the American. " Comments ()
Zyme
- #2 - 2007-03-22 10:00 - (Reply)
Americans simply value personal freedom too high from a European perspective. It is like a primary reflex against an authoritarian approach, which is typical for them. Comments ()
Don S
- #2.1 - 2007-03-22 11:41 - (Reply)
So kissing the King's arse promotes 'civilisation, Zyme? Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #3 - 2007-03-22 11:34 - (Reply)
I think I'll just asssume that the previous two comments are satire. It's rather staggering to be chastised for having too much freedom from a country that actually still has a few senior citizens tottering around with tattoos on their arms. Or an area that just a little over ten years didn't have enough "efficient organization" to prevent the killings in Srebrenica, which last time I checked was still considered part of Europe. Comments ()
Zyme
- #4 - 2007-03-22 12:04 - (Reply)
Pat there was no satire at all - I understand your assumptive supposition on the basis of a cultural gap between our continents. Comments ()
Volker
- #5 - 2007-03-22 12:57 - (Reply)
What are these "big freedoms", weapons? This is your big freedom? For me it's an idioty not a freedom. Comments ()
David
- #6 - 2007-03-22 13:19 - (Reply)
I am concerned about home schooling in the US. The examples cited by Potsdam Amerikanerin are the exception. The truth is, tens of thousands of American children are in "Christian" home-schooling programs where they receive little or no science education. Rather, they are taught creationism. Comments ()
Fuchur
- #7 - 2007-03-22 13:23 - (Reply)
That's interesting, because, when I spent a year at an American High School a while ago, I found that lack in "small freedoms" pretty startling: Liquor of course; also, in one town, kids were forbidden to wear certain T-Shirts (apparently there had been some trouble with two rivalling youth gangs). I also was surprised by the drastic school rules (a couple of unexcused - or even excused - absences, and you could be thrown out!). What I found really out of bounds was the idea to stand up and hail some stupid flag every morning... a thing impossible to do for anyone who'd ever heard from Wilhelm Tell ;-). Good thing exchange students were exempt from this duty... Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #7.1 - 2007-03-22 21:39 - (Reply)
"To me, it has often seemed like a bit of a contradiction that the US on the one hand valor freedom so much, but on the other hand have no problem with restrictions that almost seem medieval to us (smoking, nudity, ...). " Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #7.1.1 - 2007-03-23 02:14 - (Reply)
Joerg-The main difference is that many of these so-called "quality of life" issues get promulgated and passed at the local level, ie. state, county and city. In some cases within a private gated community via its homeowners association(CC&Rs). The smaller the area covered the easier it is to get some personal pet peeve enacted into law because of the lower turnout and the ability of small groups to organize themselves into voting blocs at lightly attended local elections. Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #7.1.1.1 - 2007-03-23 02:27 - (Reply)
Are you saying that there are some states, where you can drink below the age of 21??? Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #8 - 2007-03-23 03:35 - (Reply)
There is no federal authority to pass any law banning drinking under the age of 21 in the US. That power, to set age limits and availability of alcohol, hadd been given by the states to the federal government and then repealed during the Depression. attempt. However, those states that want to allow drinking at an earlier age, can do so, but would lose a big chunk of the federal funds set aside for transportation projects in their state. Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #8.1 - 2007-03-23 03:39 - (Reply)
Sorry, 2nd link should be; Comments ()
Don S
- #9 - 2007-03-23 12:27 - (Reply)
"US Evangelicals Demand German Home Schooling." Comments ()
Zyme
- #10 - 2007-03-23 15:54 - (Reply)
Don S Comments ()
Don S
- #10.1 - 2007-03-23 23:10 - (Reply)
Some laws are evil, Zyme. An example was the Birmingham bus controversy of 1956 in the US. Rosa Parks and Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. were the lawless ones, and Sherriff Bull Connor was upholding the law - vicious dogs and water canon and all. Comments ()
Axel
- #10.1.1 - 2007-03-24 01:02 - (Reply)
Don, Comments ()
Don S
- #10.1.1.1 - 2007-03-24 03:13 - (Reply)
Axel, It's been my observation that many Germans find it easy to find and condemn injustice 3000 miles over the Atlantic Ocean - but unable to see it closer to home. Could that be happening here? Comments ()
Fuchur
- #10.1.1.1.1 - 2007-03-25 14:46 - (Reply)
And it's been my observation that many Americans argue that their authorities deserve almost unlimited trust with all sorts of strange things (wiretapping, torture, suspending habeas corpus, kidnapping...) - but cry "NAAAZIS!!!" whenever they perceive that German authorities have a toe out of line. Comments ()
Don S
- #10.1.1.1.1.1 - 2007-03-25 19:03 - (Reply)
"things (wiretapping, torture, suspending habeas corpus, kidnapping...) - but cry "NAAAZIS!!!" whenever they perceive that German authorities have a toe out of line." Comments ()
Fuchur
- #10.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2007-03-25 20:52 - (Reply)
[i]No in modern days whenever someone talks about Nazis it is quite clear whom they mean; members of the US Republican Party. [/i] Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #10.1.2 - 2007-03-24 03:20 - (Reply)
The Montgomery Bus Boycott was in 1956 made famous by Rosa Parks and E.D. Nixon while MLK had just been appointed pastor of his first church, Dexter Avenue. He played only a minor part of the first boycott and had minimal involvement in the nearly year long boycott later that same year. His reputation truly become noteworthy after his house was bombed and he had established the SCLC. Comments ()
Zyme
- #11 - 2007-03-23 16:01 - (Reply)
The reason is that there is a "Schulpflicht" in Germany, the duty to attend a school as a child. Homeschooling seems to have been allowed up to 1938, and since then is forbidden by law. Comments ()
David
- #12 - 2007-03-23 17:06 - (Reply)
Don't be fooled when American conservatives speak about how they cherish the "big freedoms". When it comes to choosing between freedom and security, the conservatives choose security every time. Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #12.1 - 2007-03-23 19:56 - (Reply)
Firstly the so-called warrantless wiretapping was of foreign calls into the US and the all had to go before the FISA courts to continue to be monitored after 30 days. And that listening was just recently codified by Congress and cleared by the Washington DC Federal Court of Appeals. Fascists to a man. Secondly, could you name one conservative that "celebrated" an assault on any constitutional right? Can you also show me where any conservative, I'll even except a revanchist like Pat Buchanan, demanded the jailing of any reporters? Comments ()
David
- #12.1.1 - 2007-03-24 00:54 - (Reply)
Numerous conservatives called for the imprisonment of reporters. Bill Bennett did it on national tv. Read the transcript of Meet the Press [url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13615446/page/7/]here[/url]. I'm happy to list others, but surely you know how to Google. Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #12.1.1.1 - 2007-03-24 02:21 - (Reply)
And the salient passage was when William Safire said, "...Threaten them with contempt and put them in jail." William Bennett responding by saying that he agreed with that statement. The newsmen had to be charged with contempt in a court proceeding, but to get that far there had to be a criminal investigation, discovery, motions then a court trial and only then if the newspaper reporter refused to reveal his sources could a contempt citation be issued. Which could be appealed to either a state appelate court or a Federal ppeals Court.. Which was what the entire discussion pertained too. Bennett did not call for imprisonment but rather that the reporters, if a subpoena could be issued, be qwuestioned in court. Then if they refused the judge or in some extreme cases the prosecutor could charge them with a crime. Comments ()
David
- #12.1.1.1.1 - 2007-03-26 00:03 - (Reply)
Typical response of the American right: Blame Clinton! Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #13 - 2007-03-24 03:33 - (Reply)
Sorry, the last sentence in the first paragraph is not correct. Being held in contempt is not a crime but legal tactic used by a judge and in some jurisdictions by the prosecutor, to keep the proceedings calm and aboveboard. Also a way of coercing testimony in a criminal case from a witness that the court has already ruled does have to testify. Such as when a witness invokes his right to not incriminate himself but the judge rules that in this case that 5th Amendment right doesn't apply. Comments ()
Pat Patterson
- #14 - 2007-03-26 00:41 - (Reply)
Again, you can't get at reporters unless there has been a crime to which that reporter was witness. Here the case was the publishing of secrets which was an indictable felonies and the desire to question the reporters as witnesses to that crime. If you end up with a packet of papers marked Top Secret and then publish them you can expect to be questioned about this crime just as if you got a TV off of a truck and tried to sell it on E-Bay. Many conservatives were upset that the Bush Administration didn't seem to interested in either finding out who leaked. Especially as some reporters did seem to know but wee not questioned. Comments ()
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