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Friday, November 24. 2006Should the United States Send more Troops to Iraq or Start the Withdrawal?Posted by Joerg Wolf in US Foreign Policy on Friday, November 24. 2006
David V. emailed:
Here's a thought that you may want to write about: why not try democracy in Iraq? 70% of all Iraqis want American troops to leave immediately, and at least the same percentage of Americans feel the same way. Why not follow the will of the people? Yet it appears likely that Bush will follow McCain's proposal and put 20-40 thousand more troops in.Systems of representative democracy are usually considered better than direct democracy. Besides, Tony Blankley warns in RealClearPolitics (via DMK) against bending to popular pressure: Expedient Washington politicians, take note: Your public is fickle. They may cheer your decision today to get out of Iraq but vote you out of office tomorrow when they don't like the results. Much of the world (and a fair portion of the American public) may hate us today for our alleged arrogance. But they will spit out our name with contempt through time if we permit to be released the whirlwind that will follow our exit.In Should We Stay or Should We Go Now?, David Swanson summarizes Anthony Arnove's book "Iraq: The Logic of Withdrawal." One of the more convincing points is "4. The United States is not preventing civil war in Iraq. This is the same myth the British spread in 1920, when they didn't want to stop occupying Iraq." David V. elaborated his call for immediate withdrawal in his blog post "The Haditha Massacre". Do you agree with the Clash song: "Should I stay or should I go now? / If I go there will be trouble / An' if I stay it will be double"? Or is it the other way around, i.e. more trouble if the U.S. troops leave Iraq fairly soon? And what should Germany do regarding Iraq? Trackbacks
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Yank
- #1 - 2006-11-25 03:52 - (Reply)
I find it hard to believe that you did not know this statement is a whopper: "70% of all Iraqis want American troops to leave immediately". There is a recent poll that says 71% think we should stay for a year. And Leftists state this as 71% wanting us out within a year. Cute, eh? Comments ()
Assistant Village Idiot
- #2 - 2006-11-25 05:35 - (Reply)
If you read Arnove's other 7 summary points, it puts #4 in some perspective. 1. No right to be there in the first place. 2. Not bringing democracy. 3. US making the world less safe. 5. Al Q arrived in Iraq after the invasion 6. The US is "not honoring" those who died by continuing. 7. The US is not rebuilding Iraq, Halliburton and Bechtel are looting it. 8. We are making things worse. Comments ()
David
- #3 - 2006-11-25 13:39 - (Reply)
As I read the daily reports of unbelievable carnage in Iraq, I can only agree with Richard Clarke (in TNR): Comments ()
Yank
- #4 - 2006-11-25 16:11 - (Reply)
And socialists (i.e., anti-capitalists = anti-Americans even if they be American) tend to be defeatist Chicken Littles who think that America can achive no goal. It appears that this inveterate pessimism is due to an articlce of faith in the socialist religion that the Evil Capitalist Empire only looks strong, but is actually as weak as a termite infested house about to fall any minute now. Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #4.1 - 2006-11-25 16:27 - (Reply)
"Why not quote an IRAQI blog like "Iraq the Model" for evidence of how Iraqis feel and for explanations of the political scene there?" Comments ()
Yank
- #4.1.1 - 2006-11-25 17:19 - (Reply)
Perhaps I failed to make myself clear enough for you. Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #4.1.1.1 - 2006-11-25 17:39 - (Reply)
How do you know that "Iraq the model" or other so-called Iraqi blogs are indeed written by Iraqis? Comments ()
Yank
- #4.1.1.1.1 - 2006-11-27 08:14 - (Reply)
How do you know that "Iraq the model" or other so-called Iraqi blogs are indeed written by Iraqis? Comments ()
Yank
- #5 - 2006-11-25 17:30 - (Reply)
David V says: "Yet it appears likely that Bush will follow McCain's proposal and put 20-40 thousand more troops in." Comments ()
David
- #5.1 - 2006-11-25 18:40 - (Reply)
@Yank, Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #5.1.1 - 2006-11-25 19:43 - (Reply)
Very interesting. Comments ()
2020
- #5.1.2 - 2006-11-26 06:23 - (Reply)
I'm amused to read words about 'leaving Iraq honorably' - but in fact I'm sure nobody here in this thread really knows what by definition an 'honorable withdrawal' would mean: The besieged forces are allowed to leave the theatre of war under the eyes of the victorious troops, under weapons and with march music, officers obliged to abstain from fighting for the rest of the war, the ranks to be discharged. Comments ()
Zyme
- #6 - 2006-11-25 21:02 - (Reply)
Solving problems is a fascinating task. Especially when you have different options - who got more options in Iraq, the american government or the american military command in Iraq? Comments ()
Assistant Village Idiot
- #7 - 2006-11-26 23:45 - (Reply)
JW, I appreciate your asking for a "least worst" solution commentary. I think that is wise. Military actions, even victorious ones, always have terrible additional consequences. They are advisable only when the other choices are worse. Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #7.1 - 2006-11-27 00:32 - (Reply)
"How I would loved to have seen the effect on the morale of Islamic terrorists, and the subsequent encouragement on sane and moderate Muslims, had the Western world expressed confidence and approval for the removal of terrorists." Comments ()
David
- #7.2 - 2006-11-27 01:40 - (Reply)
"Thus, solutions by the "wrong sort" must be undermined, or they might be elected in greater numbers." Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #8 - 2006-11-27 00:42 - (Reply)
Jonathan Chait is thinking the unthinkable: Bringing back Saddam: Comments ()
Don S
- #8.1 - 2006-11-27 02:44 - (Reply)
Well, that's Jonathan Chait for you. The most hidebound conservatives of all call themselves 'progressives' these days - with complete sincerity. It's no joke at all. Comments ()
Zyme
- #8.2 - 2006-11-27 14:05 - (Reply)
Please Don, stop it! Comments ()
Don S
- #8.2.1 - 2006-11-28 01:32 - (Reply)
"Whenever I hear people speaking of the good old times, when europe still had its emperors.. I canīt keep myself from getting sooo nostalgic :)" Comments ()
Don S
- #9 - 2006-11-27 02:53 - (Reply)
"4. The United States is not preventing civil war in Iraq. This is the same myth the British spread in 1920, when they didn't want to stop occupying Iraq." Comments ()
Anonymous
- #10 - 2006-11-29 00:15 - (Reply)
Yank wants Iraqi blogs, but he can only read English. Comments ()
Yank
- #10.1 - 2006-11-29 14:19 - (Reply)
Words do matter. 80% of the violence occurs within 36 miles of Bagdad. Not a civil war. (See Senate and House testimony of General Abizaid on November 15 before their respective Armed Services committees.) Comments ()
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