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Murder Rate in the United States and GermanyPosted by Editors in German Politics, US Domestic and Cultural Issues on Thursday, October 5. 2006
The Independent asks in light of last week's shooting in the Rockies in Colorado and in the Amish county of Pennsylvania: "Can America ever be weaned off its love affair with guns?" and mentions these shocking statistics:
In the US, there are roughly 17,000 murders a year, of which about 15,000 are committed with firearms. By contrast, Britain, Australia and Canada combined see fewer than 350 gun-related murders each year. And it's not just about murder. The non-gun-related suicide rate in the US is consistent with the rest of the developed world. Factor in firearms, and the rate is suddenly twice as high as the rest of the developed world.Read the entire article at The Independent and the discussion at The Moderate Voice. Among Germany's 82 million citizens there have been 794 murders in 2005. That's two more murders than in 2004. These numbers are from "the German FBI" Bundeskriminalamt (pdf). DW World reports about "Safer Streets, Growing Fear", Between 1993 and 2003, the number of murders fell by 40.8 percent and domestic burglaries fell by 45.7 percent. All in all, crime in general dropped by 2.6 percent during the 10-year period and today, Germany is considered one of the industrialized world's safer countries.US statistics from Associated Press: Murders, robberies and aggravated assaults in the United States increased last year, spurring an overall rise in violent crime for the first time since 2001, according to FBI data. Murders rose 4.8 percent, meaning there were more than 16,900 victims in 2005. That would be the most since 1998 and the largest percentage increase in 15 years.Okay, let's do the math: Murders per 1.000.000 inhabitants in the US: 56,3. And in Germany: 9,7. That means the murder rate is nearly six times higher in the US than in Germany.
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Zyme
- #1 - 2006-10-05 17:45 - (Reply)
Looks like the people here in Germany have a greater need for public safety.
RZ
- #2 - 2006-10-06 09:36 - (Reply)
Sorry, but I call bs. Why is murder or suicide by firearm worse than murder or suicide by other means (most murders in the USA are committed with firearms, most murders in Europe are committed with knives and blunt objects)? Why do you sometimes use absolute numbers and sometimes use per capita rates (US population is increasing)? And why didn't you write about the fact that crime rates have been falling for over a decade in the USA?
JW-Atlantic Review
- #2.1 - 2006-10-06 13:00 - (Reply)
Thanks for your commet, RZ!
tcobb
- #3 - 2006-10-06 15:30 - (Reply)
If easy access to guns is the main factor driving the murder rate in the US it would seem to follow that Canada should have a comparable rate, but it does not, as you point out. Places like Switzerland and Israel, where many adults are required to keep guns in their homes, should have higher murder rates, but they do not. It is also the case that areas which have the most restrictive gun laws in the US also tend to have very high crime rates.
JW-Atlantic Review
- #3.1 - 2006-10-06 16:09 - (Reply)
My only point is: The murder rate in the US is much higher than in Europe.
JW-Atlantic Review
- #3.1.1 - 2006-10-06 16:39 - (Reply)
@ Tcobb
Tcobb
- #3.1.2 - 2006-10-06 17:18 - (Reply)
Anytime people are being killed there is a problem. The real question in any such situation is what can realistically be done about it. A lot of the murders in the US consist of criminals killing other criminals. A lot of the "youths" who die from guns are gang members who have reaped that which they have sowed. I don't know of any practical cure for such a problem that would not be worse than the disease, but that is the case with many problems. Sometimes there just aren't any good answers.
JW-Atlantic Review
- #3.1.2.1 - 2006-10-06 18:00 - (Reply)
tcobb
- #4 - 2006-10-07 02:20 - (Reply)
Perhaps it is just a cultural gulf, and I do think that Americans in general place a lot more faith in self-reliance than they do on collective solutions such as giving the police a monopoly on the use of force to deter criminal conduct. And yes, when it comes to defending yourself against thugs, nothing works so well as a gun. Even a small woman can turn a 250 pound would be rapist into a corpse if she has a pistol and knows how to use it.
Possum
- #5 - 2006-10-07 05:20 - (Reply)
It's about RIGHTS, not benefits. We don't need a mamma. The framers of our Constitution didn't want the people disarmed as they were in Europe, where only nobles had the right to bear arms and thus rule and tyrannize the peasantry. The Federalist Papers explicitly point out why the right to bear arms was put in the Constitution.
Assistant Village Idiot
- #6 - 2006-10-07 06:27 - (Reply)
I have been in this discussion many times, and will say at the outset that I tend to favor the more typical American view, but not entirely.
Timo
- #6.1 - 2006-10-07 13:33 - (Reply)
Your 1st point (the early settlers) is contradicted by your 4th point (mobility).
Assistant Village Idiot
- #7 - 2006-10-07 18:41 - (Reply)
I didn't say anything about European softness, big government, etc. I might in other sections. It's a complicated issue, not easily captured in a black/white painting.
Tcobb
- #8 - 2006-10-07 18:51 - (Reply)
The United States is soft on violent crime? I'm glad to know that. I suppose that all this criticism about how the US has such a large percentage of its population in prison, its long sentences, and the dreaded use of capital punishment is just bogus nonsense. Which European critics are we to believe now?
JW-Atlantic Review
- #8.1 - 2006-10-07 19:22 - (Reply)
"Criticism of America's gun laws by foreigners has about the same effect here as having Americans criticize the socialistic aspects of European democracies over there. None."
Ralf Goergens
- #8.2 - 2006-10-08 00:50 - (Reply)
QUOTE: Criticism of America's gun laws by foreigners has about the same effect here as having Americans criticize the socialistic aspects of European democracies over there. None. How about my overwhelming gun envy? Does that have any effect besides putting a wide grin on your face?
Tcobb
- #8.2.1 - 2006-10-08 01:16 - (Reply)
Control yourself Ralf. Calm down. Please. Its in your own self interest. Don't make me have to summon the authorities. If you antagonize them they might feel compelled to shoot you . . .
Ralf Goergens
- #8.2.1.1 - 2006-10-08 20:34 - (Reply)
QUOTE: Don't make me have to summon the authorities. Snitching on me, eh? Well, around here we know how to deal with stool-pigeons.... ;)
David
- #9 - 2006-10-07 23:20 - (Reply)
I cannot help but feel that the high murder rate in the US is to some degree connected with the scourge of capital punishment. Executing prisoners is a barbaric practice which contributes to the degradation and general devaluation of human life in American culture.
Assistant Village Idiot
- #10 - 2006-10-08 02:14 - (Reply)
David, I'm sure the authorites are noting your feelings as their major scientific evidence for legislation.
David
- #10.1 - 2006-10-08 11:48 - (Reply)
In a democracy the voters decide - not the "authorities". In my state - and 15 others - the voters have consistently viewed capital punishment as an immoral, barbaric practice.
Don
- #11 - 2006-10-08 02:34 - (Reply)
My personal experience with crime has been counterintuitive. In the late 80's I lived in New Brunswick, NJ - pretty much of a pit. There were crack cocaine users in my neighborhood and when I walked out to my car in the morning I could see where the druggies had discarded their needles. Nevertheless I never witnessed any crime worse than one of my neigbors smoking a joint.
Olaf Petersen
- #12 - 2006-10-08 07:11 - (Reply)
Death penalties, torture, boot camps, secret prisons worldwide, ten times more prisoners per capita than any other nation in the world. The lead nation, the land of the free?
Tcobb
- #13 - 2006-10-08 10:35 - (Reply)
Thanks Olaf. Tirades like yours are one reason why Americans tend to tune people like you out. Europe has done so much for America in the 20th Century: its given us Communism, Fascism, Nazism, and many dead American soldiers from World War I and World War II. It is simply impossible for me to express my gratitude for these gifts the European hunger for Utopia has bestowed upon America. I have often heard the complaint from Europeans that Americans have no "sense of history." When it comes to the 20th Century, we have a rather good grasp of history, and the associations with that history and Europe are, shall we say, unpleasant.
James
- #13.1 - 2007-01-29 06:24 - (Reply)
I just cannot comprehend this jealous knee-jerk resistance to taking a stand alongside America against terror that has crept into this discussion of crime and murder rates.
Zyme
- #14 - 2006-10-08 11:54 - (Reply)
Tcobb
Timo
- #15 - 2006-10-08 12:01 - (Reply)
Tcobb,
JW-Atlantic Review
- #15.1 - 2006-10-15 12:18 - (Reply)
@ Timo,
Assistant Village Idiot
- #16 - 2006-10-08 19:52 - (Reply)
Zyme, there are actually rational people in Europe who believe the US entered the wars in order to extend its own influence and power? Or that such a goal was even 1% of our motivation? If you believe such nonsense, then obviously every other evil thing you believe about us flows from that. If you are unable to consider that a country could have other motives, that perhaps says more about yourself than it does about me. Hopefully, that is not a general inability among Germans.
Anonymous
- #17 - 2006-10-09 17:26 - (Reply)
"Former Air America host Mike Malloy and right wing talk show host Steve Malzberg were on MSNBC yesterday to discuss the idea of teachers having guns in classrooms."
Anonymous
- #18 - 2006-11-21 02:25 - (Reply)
The German murder rate does not include voluntary manslaughter ("Totschlag"), which in the USA would often not be considered voluntary manslaughter but murder in the second degree.
Fritz Ethridge
- #19 - 2008-05-21 02:33 - (Reply)
The reason that there are so many murders in the U.S. has nothing to do any laws or restrictions or the lack thereof. The reason is really simple. Piss off an American and he or she will put a cap in your ass. Add Comment
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