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Monday, February 7. 2011

France and US: Bad Judgment on North Africa

Posted by Joerg Wolf in European Issues, US Foreign Policy on Monday, February 7. 2011

French Foreign Minister Alliot-Marie, who has served under several prime ministers and has held almost all of the big ministries, should resign immediately!

Moreover, I wish that the entire French government is so ashamed of itself that they cease to give grand speeches about human rights, democracy and values for the rest of the year.

Los Angeles Times: 

France trained Egyptian police officers in crowd control and sent tear gas to Tunis. And its foreign minister vacationed in Tunisia after the uprising, using the jet of a man linked to the ousted president. (...) French Prime Minister Francois Fillon confirmed this week that the government had authorized a shipment of tear gas grenades to Tunis on Jan. 12, two days before Tunisian President Zine el Abidine ben Ali was toppled from power. (...) Weeks ago, Alliot-Marie was criticized for offering to prop up Ben Ali's unpopular administration just days before he fled the country. She suggested sending France's "world renowned" security forces to help quell the uprising.

Compared to what France has done, the Obama administration's lapse of moral judgment is peanuts. Telegraph Independent:

Frank Wisner, President Barack Obama's envoy to Cairo who infuriated the White House this weekend by urging Hosni Mubarak to remain President of Egypt, works for a New York and Washington law firm which works for the dictator's own Egyptian government.

Meanwhile, Germany might facilitate a quick de facto resignation of Mubarak. Jerusalem Post:

The United States government's plan to end to the political chaos in Egypt appeared to be a scenario wherein Mubarak travels to Germany for a "prolonged health check," the report suggested.

Photo: © Rémi Jouan, CC-BY-SA, GNU Free Documentation License, Wikimedia Commons

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Marie Claude - #1 - 2011-02-08 00:13 - (Reply)

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John in Michigan, US - #1.1 - 2011-02-08 21:51 - (Reply)

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Marie Claude - #1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 02:37 - (Reply)

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Pat Patterson - #1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 03:40 - (Reply)

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Marie Claude - #1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 04:27 - (Reply)

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Pat Patterson - #1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 05:16 - (Reply)

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Marie Claude - #1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 05:30 - (Reply)

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Pat Patterson - #1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 05:43 - (Reply)

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John in Michigan, US - #1.1.1.2 - 2011-02-10 00:37 - (Reply)

MC,

What is your obsession weird sites? I am in danger of becoming bored with the Provocatrice.

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Marie Claude - #1.1.2 - 2011-02-10 02:39 - (Reply)

Digital activists in Egypt being trained by internet experts in New York http://t.co/Q7ctKDA

d'ya think they would have made the Revolution on their own?

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Pat Patterson - #1.1.2.1 - 2011-02-10 03:18 - (Reply)

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Marie Claude - #1.1.2.1.1 - 2011-02-10 03:54 - (Reply)

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Pat Patterson - #1.1.2.1.1.1 - 2011-02-10 04:53 - (Reply)

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Marie Claude - #1.1.2.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-10 16:56 - (Reply)

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Pat Patterson - #1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-11 03:40 - (Reply)

That type of logic would then lead one to also assume that France is involved up to its eyeballs because of its sale of Mirages to Egypt and it's still hoped for sale of the Rafale. In other words arguing suspicion is simply in the realim of conspiracy and make-believe.

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Marie Claude - #1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-11 05:51 - (Reply)

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Pat Patterson - #1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-11 06:43 - (Reply)

But those, like you and I, are simply not as reliable as a good site is going to be. And certainly not prone to go the comment section or anti-Semitic websites for support.

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Marie Claude - #1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-11 06:48 - (Reply)

if you say so,

nonetheless bizarre that these sites are seen as anti-semit by you, you should protest to their editor chiefs ! cuz, officially the medias which support these articles, aren't labelled "anti-semit"

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Pat Patterson - #1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-11 12:01 - (Reply)

You need to read that again as I did not say CounterPunch or Belmont Club were anti-Semitic but that you have a habit of quoting sites that are and then completely ignoring any criticism by immediately trotting out the ad hominems.

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Marie Claude - #1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-11 15:26 - (Reply)

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Marie Claude - #2 - 2011-02-08 00:16 - (Reply)

BTW "the Telegraph" is "The Independant"

and Mubarak might finish his maendate in Germany, according the egyptian twittering

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Pat Patterson - #3 - 2011-02-08 02:44 - (Reply)

Why is France to blame for a event that the Tunisian and Egyptian authorities missed as well?

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Joerg Wolf - #3.1 - 2011-02-08 09:25 - (Reply)

???

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Marie Claude - #3.2 - 2011-02-08 13:18 - (Reply)

France knew that Tunisians were muzzled, as Tunisia is a favorite affordable vacation trip, and most of the people here didn't care, you know, it is a former colony, and it looks like that after our mendate these people could only be handled under autoritarian governments. Though lots of ties remained within our two countries, essentially in businesses, and making business there ment to entertain good relations with the elite.

Alliot Marie was just akward, she thought to help her "friends" that were encountering a revolt like we have many on our parisian streets. But I suspect that our "clever" Sarkozy put this old UMP apparatchik into foreign affairs Ministery first for elections agenda, and to discredit the "gaullist guards of UMP, she isn't of the diplomats serail, just a good UMP supporter, though our diplomat in Tunisia didn't forecast the event too. Looks like that the Tunisian regime was there for eternity !

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Kevin Sampson - #3.2.1 - 2011-02-08 23:12 - (Reply)

Turns out she isn't the only one:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12397397

Jeez, doesn't the French government have any aircraft of their own?

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Marie Claude - #3.2.1.1 - 2011-02-09 02:16 - (Reply)

uh these are "diplomatic" advantages, but don't America politicians get such?

And you may know that Mubarak is co-president with Sarkozy of the Mediterranean Union.

Though watching the many American advisers in Egypt, I have to question how is that happened ?

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Kevin Sampson - #3.2.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 16:08 - (Reply)

'uh these are "diplomatic" advantages, but don't America politicians get such?'

From foreign governments? No, I don't think so. Wealthy constituents, maybe, but not foreign governments.

'And you may know that Mubarak is co-president with Sarkozy of the Mediterranean Union'

So what?

'Though watching the many American advisers in Egypt, I have to question how is that happened ?'

What American advisors and how what happened?

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Marie Claude - #3.2.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 17:15 - (Reply)

don't be so one sided, America is giving $ billions per year to Egypt, guess, it's not for the humble population, but for military trainings and arms purchases to the Mubarak government, so I think that the balance, France vs Us, leans very much towards your country !

"so what"

you're underwriting the "Mare Nostrum" that the periphericaal states share, though, forget that, but Mubarak was worshipped for keeping the equilibrium and peace among them, and because of the nowadays revolts, you are wanting to pass him under the bus, isn't it funny that you want to forget the last 30 years common history with Egypt, and that you're accusing France of abusing of some of good relations with certain Egyptians !

get the straw out of your eyes !

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Pat Patterson - #3.2.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 18:12 - (Reply)

Mare Nostrum? Like Mussolini's goal?

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Marie Claude - #3.2.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2011-02-09 23:13 - (Reply)

no, like Hannibal Lecter

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Marie Claude - #4 - 2011-02-08 03:21 - (Reply)

UK refuses to suspend Egypt arms sales http://gu.com/p/2nx2c/tf

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Pat Patterson - #4.1 - 2011-02-08 03:42 - (Reply)

The actual link basically says the UK made no comment.

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Marie Claude - #5 - 2011-02-08 18:41 - (Reply)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,744148,00.html Germany Divided over How to Deal with Dictators

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Pat Patterson - #6 - 2011-02-09 18:09 - (Reply)

The US gave $1.6 billion to Egypt last year and will probably give $1.5 billion as requested this year. 1/3rd of that money is spent directly by US Aid on projects that are directly beneficial to the citizens of Egypt in the manner of infrastructure, schools, hospitals and often letters of credit for international trade. Egypt is only the 5th largest recipient behind Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel and Colombia.

There are currently 32 US military advisors serving in Egypt either in an official capacity via the DOD or seconded to State or USAID. We have more Marine embassy guards in Egypt now then we have trainers and advisors at any time since the Camp David Accords.

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Zyme - #7 - 2011-02-09 21:04 - (Reply)

I think the French made everything right in this case. Surely it didn't work in the end, but from the perspective of time when they decided to stabilize the regimes in North Africa, it was the only correct thing they could do.

We shouldn't be harsh with them - the French simply had the most influential position in North Africa. Any system change will endanger this well established position.

And Joerg please, you do not really fall for the "we spread democracy" propaganda do you? My goodness..
Surely this propaganda includes blatant lies, but these are for a good purpose - they help furthering our interests where suitable.

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Marie Claude - #8 - 2011-02-10 01:29 - (Reply)

interesting "résumé" of the ME conflict, Egypt vs Israel

Egypt, Israel and a Strategic Reconsideration | STRATFOR http://t.co/MxND8jA

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Zyme - #8.1 - 2011-02-10 20:40 - (Reply)

Marie, how is this French governmental attitude viewed upon in France? Is it criticized heavily or not?

I think the French government's behavior is a sign of courage: The government must have known that there is a possibility of failure and must subsequently have taken into account this diplomatic disaster it is going to face now, right?

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Marie Claude - #8.1.1 - 2011-02-10 22:00 - (Reply)

this is a lefty buzz of course, but they forget Mitterrand's trips !

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