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Europe-bashing has Diminishing ReturnsPosted by Nanne Zwagerman in Transatlantic Relations, US Domestic and Cultural Issues on Tuesday, July 29. 2008
In reporting on the U.S. presidential campaign, it is taken for granted that showing excessive friendliness towards Europe would be damaging for the candidates. They would seem too concerned with the opinion of the world, and not enough with America's security. That downside to touring Europe has also been highlighted by David Francis in his Atlantic Review post 'By Giving a Speech in Berlin, Obama is playing with Fire'.
A spokesman for McCain has tried to capitalise on an expected anti-European sentiment by alleging that Obama was more interested in meeting 'throngs of fawning Germans' than in visiting American troops. If this is a broader campaign strategy, it may well backfire. On the left-leaning democracyarsenal blog, Michael Cohen ties together the data we have on America's perceptions of European countries, and their perception on the perception of America abroad. This leads him to conclude: The notion that Americans want their presidents to maintain an arm's distance relationship with our Allies is a canard. There simply is no evidence to support this notion. But due to constant repetition by neo-conservative politicians and various enablers of this Administration it has become conventional wisdom. It's about time we put this silly idea to rest.Don't let the colour on that distract you from the data. The polling shows that since recently, a majority of Americans perceive the image of America abroad as a major problem, and, a fortiori, the vast majority now have a favourable view of Germany, the UK, and France. Welcome! You are reading the ATLANTIC REVIEW -- a Press Digest on Transatlantic Relations combined with commentary and analysis by four young professionals from Germany, the Netherlands and the United States. More about us. The horizontal menu bar at the top helps to navigate this site. Subscribe to one of our RSS-Feeds or to our newsletter, which is emailed twice per month.Trackbacks
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quo vadis
- #1 - 2008-07-30 01:32 - (Reply)
If I thought that the "rock star' treatment of Obama actually reflected a substantive and sustained change in European and world opinion, I would consider it to be a big positive for Obama, but seriously, it can't be THAT easy can it?
Nanne
- #1.1 - 2008-07-30 19:06 - (Reply)
Clinton would likely have gotten a warm reception, but nowhere near the crowd. The same goes for virtually all possible and impossible alternatives (Edwards, Kucinich, ...).
SC
- #2 - 2008-07-30 05:45 - (Reply)
I may have missed something, but I didn't see that your pollsters controlled for the effects of the elections of Sarkozy and Merkel, both of whom have been portrayed in many places as more "pro-American" than their predecessors. Given this spin, why would anyone be surprised by an increase in polled American responses to questions meant to gauge positive feelings toward either France or Germany?
Nanne
- #2.1 - 2008-07-30 19:27 - (Reply)
I do think that Kerry's talk of a 'global test' hurt him in the 2004 elections (probably not enough to account for his loss, but still). Cohen disagrees with this, pointing to generally favourable views among Americans of European countries back then, and the fact that exit pollsters didn't ask the question. But these views then were less favourable towards France and Germany. And I've seen a lot of statements back then indicating that this was a big personal issue for people. There were a lot of 'single issue' voters on the topic of terrorism and national security. And I think that the 'global test' statement in the debates put to rest any remaining uncertainty on their part on whether Kerry was tough enough.
SC
- #2.1.1 - 2008-07-31 06:30 - (Reply)
True Nanne, Kerry's comment hurt some. But note that a negative reaction to the "global test" would not qualify as evidence of a specific reaction to Europe but rather to a long standing allergy to infringement on sovereignty generally. The oath of office for the President is rather simple and direct and when someone for that office - foolishly, in my opinion - begins speaking of "global tests" that person begs scrutiny and skepticism; which, relative to that comment, is exactly what Kerry got. It was something he did to himself not something that the opposing campaign crafted, but it did fit with a general theme that was crafted and used against him that he was "out of touch" with "ordinary" Americans: unfortunately for him, Kerry seemed all too cooperative with the effort.
Don S
- #3 - 2008-07-30 20:11 - (Reply)
I looked a little further into the poll than Joerg apparently did (???), and saw the following more nuanced question from the Harrfis poll:
Joerg
- #3.1 - 2008-07-30 23:07 - (Reply)
"I looked a little further into the poll than Joerg apparently did (???),"
Nanne
- #3.1.1 - 2008-07-31 00:08 - (Reply)
It's a minor slip-up, recognised below. Don certainly looked deeper into the polls than I initially did, and his responses are well-argued.
Don S
- #3.1.1.1 - 2008-08-02 19:37 - (Reply)
Nanne, the Mekel/Sarko effect is what I might describe as 'a mile wide and an inch deep', as someone once described the Platte river. Merkel was a German pullback from an extreme reaction, and the Gallup poll was the same thing.
Don S
- #3.1.2 - 2008-08-02 19:23 - (Reply)
Pardon the slip of my typing fingers, Joerg. It was indeed Nanne.
David
- #3.2 - 2008-07-31 01:49 - (Reply)
Don - did it strike you that the three nations that were cited as "close allies" were all English speaking, and Germany ranked the same as Israel? If Israel isn't a close ally, then who is?
Pat Patterson
- #3.2.1 - 2008-07-31 07:29 - (Reply)
That is good news tempered by the fact that by producing cars in the US reduces some of the obligations VW's imports(or rather Porsche's imports) might face under the new CAFE standards. Plus the really good news is that Tennessee is a Right-to_Work state and the contract VW had with the UAW have expired. Who would have thought an Obama supporter would be so hostile to the union movement?
Zyme
- #3.2.2 - 2008-07-31 11:19 - (Reply)
Are you also celebrating DHL's plans to withdraw its US delivery-base in Ohio, costing up to 10000 jobs?
Pat Patterson
- #3.2.2.1 - 2008-07-31 13:28 - (Reply)
So another US division of a German company, Deutsche Post, discovers the joys of moving to another Right-to-Work state. But at least in the US we won't see any accidental Rudolph Hess stamps. Most locusts are extinct in the US since the early 1900's though many genus of crickets and cicadas are still around so I'm not to sure what the reference means.
Zyme
- #3.2.2.1.1 - 2008-07-31 19:07 - (Reply)
What is a "right-to-work-state" ?
Joe Noory
- #3.2.2.1.1.1 - 2008-07-31 20:14 - (Reply)
Zyme - you seem quite aware that the prism of "international image" is meaningless when it comes to DHL or Daimler opening a plant here or there, that far larger are the issues of how those units behave as American companies would in that environment. It has nothing to do with the prism of the fairy tale notion of nations on a league table that so dominates so many opinions heard on a one-on-one level.
Pat Patterson
- #3.2.2.1.1.2 - 2008-07-31 20:17 - (Reply)
A Right-to-Work state basically says that an employee of any company, depending on the state by size or capitalization, does not have to join a union or pay agency dues even if that union manages to sign a contract with the employer. As a result these workplaces, though still bound by US and state work place safety rules, are much more flexible in job responsibilites and assignments.
Don S
- #3.2.3 - 2008-08-02 19:18 - (Reply)
David, the Harris poll I saw had 42% of Americans regarding Israel as a close ally, versus 28% regarding Germany as a close ally. I don't understand how you conclude that is the same! ;)
SC
- #3.3 - 2008-07-31 07:16 - (Reply)
That's very interesting, Don. I did not look at these results. Perhaps, questions meant to gauge the warm and fuzziness of feelings toward specific countries generates different results from questions meant to gauge the likelihood that you'll find these same "next to you in a foxhole". :)
Don S
- #3.3.1 - 2008-08-04 22:26 - (Reply)
I think that is the point of the poll, SC.
SC
- #3.3.1.1 - 2008-08-06 06:12 - (Reply)
Don: It comes down to the matter of interests, doesn't it? No alliance functions smoothly when interests are not well aligned as seems to have been the case for NATO since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
franchie
- #3.4 - 2008-08-04 13:34 - (Reply)
France rated 20% CA , 38% F, 27% NF, and 11% enemy.
Don S
- #4 - 2008-07-30 20:22 - (Reply)
Does 'Europe-bashing' have diminishing returns in this election, as Nanne's headline states? Without doubt. In many respects this will be a reprise of the 1992 "It's the Economy, Stupid", election. Plenty of economic trouble out there & lot's of people will be voting their pocketbooks.
franchie
- #4.1 - 2008-08-04 13:56 - (Reply)
actually, it seems that the european solutions are preceived as "evil" communist internatiionalism, therefore dhimminitude
Don S
- #4.1.1 - 2008-08-04 22:13 - (Reply)
Ummm, franchie? Where have I labled Europe or Europeans 'evil', or used the word 'dhimmi' (which I have come to detest, btw)?
Marie-Claude (franchie)
- #4.1.1.1 - 2008-08-05 00:43 - (Reply)
Don, I am not saying that you used the kind of words,I was just paroding the general idea that I have read so many times on republican blogs
Pat Patterson
- #4.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-08-05 05:51 - (Reply)
That's only one, and that's not really a blog considering the editor rarely writes or even responds to the commnets but rather a source for writings that could be fairly labeled conservative. But can I assume that in reciprocity I now can make sweeping generalities about France based on No Pasaran or even worse, Superfrenchie? Of the 43 articles currently linked only three mention Europe at all and only in the context of the Magical Mystery Tour.
Marie-Claude
- #4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-08-05 12:21 - (Reply)
if you had read correctly : thinkers'
Pat Patterson
- #4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-08-05 12:46 - (Reply)
That's even more confusing, American Thinkers is a group blog devoted to religion while American Thinker is as I outlined earlier. Unless you mean people who think in America which sounds pretty lame. The latter doesn't sound any more reliable in me writing that all French love Jerry Lewis because I got it from French thinkers especially if I don't identify any of them. My point is that such sources are hardly ones to make any judgement on whether Americans, or some Americans, think socialism is evil.
Marie-Claude
- #4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-08-05 12:53 - (Reply)
well, I guess that I didn't use the right formule : I ment the plural of thinker and not the thinkers' site
Fuchur
- #5 - 2008-07-30 22:58 - (Reply)
I think McCain could very well profit from pandering to American anti-European sentiments.
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #5.1 - 2008-07-31 18:59 - (Reply)
"pandering to American anti-European sentiments."
Nanne
- #5.1.1 - 2008-07-31 21:14 - (Reply)
Poor production values. And it's kind of a 90s image of Berlin. Minimal rules these days.
Fuchur
- #5.1.2 - 2008-07-31 21:40 - (Reply)
I think it's an appalling example of anti-Germanism.
Zyme
- #5.1.2.1 - 2008-08-01 11:43 - (Reply)
Relax, the people interested into such developments here would only be offended by such ads if they expected otherwise.
Joe Noory
- #5.1.2.2 - 2008-08-01 13:33 - (Reply)
I wouldn't get too concerned. The subject of Europe came up for about 2 days, but was eclipsed by the usual camaigning. Otherwise the subject hasn't and isn't really going to come up other than here and there when policy proposals are compared to the "European social model", and that isn't bashing. It's a perfectly ligitimate subject of discussion.
Fuchur
- #5.1.2.2.1 - 2008-08-01 22:38 - (Reply)
If nobody in America cares about Germany anyway, then what's the point of McCain's Germany-bashing? Does this mean that he's just doing this for fun, without any purpose? Gee, that's a relief...
influx
- #5.1.2.2.2 - 2008-08-01 23:59 - (Reply)
Right, Fuchur, what do they care about Europeans? They may call for bombing Dresden again, or talk about how all Europeans, and I am quoting, have shit for brains, but what do they really care? I'd be happy if someone could tell me about a European blog or whatever filled with the same kind of blind-eyed hatred and vitriol as the comments on Joe Noory's site or on Medienkritik's. But, right, I forgot, those are just comments, so you're not responsible for them. Wait, the "shit for brains" thing was actually a headline, not a comment.
Zyme
- #5.1.2.2.2.1 - 2008-08-02 09:46 - (Reply)
Oh my goodness, thank you for the hint - I have taken a look at Joe's site for the first time now. What an obsession.
David
- #5.1.2.2.2.2 - 2008-08-02 11:50 - (Reply)
"shit for brains"
Don S
- #5.1.2.2.2.2.1 - 2008-08-02 20:34 - (Reply)
Ummmm, Dave? It's a general expression used by all parts of the political spectrum about other parts.
quo vadis
- #5.1.3 - 2008-07-31 21:52 - (Reply)
Joerg,
Volker
- #5.1.3.1.1 - 2008-08-01 18:20 - (Reply)
Nah just for him we would reestablish the death penalty and execute him within two weeks and NO parole.
Joe Noory
- #5.2 - 2008-07-31 20:10 - (Reply)
Actually, a presidential campaign bashing any nation not openily hostile to us would seem tasteless and wouldn't appeal to the American public a great deal. The more likely outcome is to simply not address the subject at all and for his to maintain his dignity by discussing good relations in the conventional, not in the solipsistic language of teenage infatuation.
Don S
- #5.2.1 - 2008-08-05 21:45 - (Reply)
I agree with Joe. I think all this talk about how the new American President must do this or that to accomodate 'European' wishes is mostly hot air for the following reasons:
jpg
- #6 - 2008-08-06 10:48 - (Reply)
If the Americans consider that France is not a close ally of the United States, it is very likely that the French people do not consider either the United States as their closest ally but simply as the most powerful in the military domain. It is true as well that the period of french bashing is also for something there. Add Comment
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