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What Germans Think of Barack Obama: Continuity We Can Believe InPosted by Joerg Wolf in Fulbright, Transatlantic Relations on Friday, July 25. 2008 The majority of Germans support Barack Obama for the US presidency, not because they believe he will radically change US policy, but because he is expected to return it to the familiar pre-Bush trajectory. This is the conclusion from my colleague Ben Heine over at atlantic-community.org Ben and I have interviewed German, American and other attendees of the Obama rally in Berlin yesterday. We have asked some of the questions that you suggested on Atlantic Review. Here's our video with their responses:
What do you think of the opinions expressed by the interviewees? Welcome! You are reading the ATLANTIC REVIEW -- a Press Digest on Transatlantic Relations combined with commentary and analysis by three young professionals from Germany, the Netherlands and the United States. More about us. The horizontal menu bar at the top helps to navigate this site. Subscribe to one of our RSS-Feeds or to our newsletter, which is emailed twice per month.Trackbacks
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Pat Patterson
- #1 - 2008-07-25 21:31 -
Jeez, what a coincidence that Mr. Heine found a completely disinterested listener that just happened to be wearing a Fulbright t-shirt! Not what are the odds? Comments (5)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #1.1 - 2008-07-25 21:42 -
Nope, he was cool. I just had to cut so much good material. Comments (9)
Joe Noory
- #2 - 2008-07-26 02:45 -
Thanks, that was great. It's good to know that we really won't be missing out on anything when the next president fails to please 90% of these people. Comments (2)
John in Michigan, USA
- #3 - 2008-07-26 03:16 -
Those were some excellent interviews. Citizen journalism rocks! Comments (14)
SC
- #4 - 2008-07-26 05:03 -
"The majority of Germans support Barrack Obama for the US presidency, not because they believe he will radically change US policy, but because he is expected to return it to the familiar pre-Bush trajectory." Comments (3)
John in Michigan, USA
- #5 - 2008-07-26 06:29 -
You will hear the expression "in the tank" referring to Bush and Fox News, or Obama and the rest of the media. That expression has nothing to do with a battle tank...or a think tank. The original phrase probably is from boxing, where a fighter who was "in the tank" would bet against himself, then intentionally loose a match. This in turn probably came from the expression "tanking" used to describe a stock that is declining rapidly in value, or achieving the lowest possible value, indicating it is worth betting on. There are other possible meanings and origins as well. Comments (14)
Joe Noory
- #6 - 2008-07-26 12:31 -
It's a new age of the new and improved intellectualism! "Continuity" and "Change" have now been declared to be the EXACT SAME THING! The cadres have spoken! Comments (2)
John in Michigan, USA
- #6.1 - 2008-07-30 23:48 -
Good point. That is a little creepy! Comments (14)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #7 - 2008-07-26 15:07 -
@ SC and Joe Comments (9)
Pat Patterson
- #7.1 - 2008-07-26 17:21 -
The "two Bush administrations?" Does that mean that the Germans want to split the country in two again? It wasn't a member of the bush family that threatened nuclear war over Soviet demands in 1961. If the elder Bush hadn't backed Ch. Kohl just what then would have happened to Germany? What exactly are the Germans so upset about considering they have a bare minimum of troops in Afghanistan with no consequences from the US, their trade to the US is generally unimpeded and near as I can tell they haven't been forced to do anything, except complain and pine for some imagined state of grace between the two countries? Comments (5)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #7.1.1 - 2008-07-26 19:06 -
I had hoped it was obvious that I was referring to the last two George W. Bush administrations. Comments (9)
Pat Patterson
- #7.1.1.1 - 2008-07-26 19:25 -
Actually no, an administration is simply a reference to the term in office of a particular president. Thus the eight years of Pres. Clinton and Pres. Bush would be referred to as an administration. While the truncated term of Pres. Ford, and the one terms of Pres. Carter and Pres. Bush are also referred to as an administration. Two administrations would refer to two different presidents. Comments (5)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #7.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-26 20:18 -
Thanks for the explanation re "administration"! I learned something. Again! Comments (9)
John in Michigan, USA
- #7.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-27 03:22 -
A better way to refer to the last 4 years of the Bush administration is the 2nd term of the Bush administration. Comments (14)
SC
- #7.2 - 2008-07-27 04:51 -
Joerg: Yes, it makes sense. Your point is that the current Bush administration is seen, broadly, as an historical aberration. In this sense then people see or equate "change" with return to what they see as past policy continuum. Comments (3)
Pat Patterson
- #7.2.1 - 2008-07-27 06:34 -
The US has sent soldiers and Marines into Korea before UN approval, as well as without consultation with Germany or Europe into Lebanon, Libya, Grenada, Haiti, Panama, the Dominican Republic and even sponsoring an invasion of Cuba. As well as leaving our fingerprints all over covert actions in Guatemala, Poland, Iran, Chile, Colombia, Afghanistan, Tibet, etc. These are all examples of unilateral action on the part of the US and it just seems that Europe wants to get into the Wayback Machine. Comments (5)
Kevin Sampson
- #7.3 - 2008-07-28 05:54 -
“Many Germans are optimistic and hopeful about transatlantic relations, i.e. they have not given up on the America they love.” Comment (1)
John in Michigan, USA
- #7.4 - 2008-07-30 23:34 -
Joerg, Comments (14)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #7.4.1 - 2008-07-31 10:27 -
"I don't think you are calling for our foreign policy to revert to its pre-9-11 mode" Comments (9)
Fuchur
- #8 - 2008-07-26 15:07 -
Thanks, the interviews were very interesting. Seems that the people have quite reasonable views on Obama and on what to expect from him. Comments (2)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #9 - 2008-07-26 15:21 -
Helmut Metzner from the Liberal Democrats has critized the German media coverage of the Obama speech. Suggestive and stupid questions, journalists wearing Obama stickers etc. Comments (9)
John in Michigan, USA
- #9.1 - 2008-07-26 16:33 -
Wow, from what little I can tell from Google's translation, that looks like it is a very interesting post from Metzner. Comments (14)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #9.1.1 - 2008-07-26 19:19 -
"Google renders this as "The Germans remain seducible". Could that really be true?" Comments (9)
Zyme
- #9.1.2 - 2008-07-26 20:00 -
The term "seducible" is misunderstood here I believe. Comments (2)
David
- #9.2 - 2008-07-26 23:13 -
I was going to translate Metzner's post until I actually read it. Can't think of a good English word for "menschenverachtend" (dripping with contempt for people). Comment (1)
Zyme
- #9.2.1 - 2008-07-26 23:44 -
Don't you know the name of the former Eastern German State ? Comments (2)
John in Michigan, USA
- #9.2.2 - 2008-07-27 03:35 -
David, Comments (14)
Fuchur
- #9.2.3 - 2008-07-28 10:50 -
What?? I hope this is just a language problem, but since your German seems to be excellent, I can't really believe this. "Menschenverachtend" is something you'd use for the likes of Stalin or Hitler. Using it here, for someone who just doesn't share your political ideas, is way out of line and extremely poor style. Comments (2)
John in Michigan, USA
- #10 - 2008-07-26 15:32 -
David, here is some real racism for you to condemn. You're welcome. Comments (14)
John in Michigan, USA
- #10.1 - 2008-07-27 03:42 -
Still waiting. Normally you're very quick on this. Cat got your tongue? Comments (14)
John in Michigan, USA
- #11 - 2008-07-26 15:46 -
Let's not ignore the Paris leg of the trip. What were the impressions of the French? Comments (14)
Bill
- #12 - 2008-07-27 13:29 -
I really enjoyed viewing this video and listening to all of the opinions from people who attended this speech in Berlin. Thanks Jörg and thanks to the rest of the crew from Atlantic Review and the Atlantic Community for putting this together. You did a very good job. Comments (2)
Christopher Paun
- #13 - 2008-07-27 14:13 -
Hi! I am the guy wearing the "get FISA right" shirt in the Video and Jörg was so kind to send me a link to this site. I am a civil liberties activist and member of the German Liberal Democrats (FDP) since several years. I also studied in the US (with a Fulbright scholarship) and so learned more about politics in the US, esp. international and transnational issues. The topic of my doctoral thesis is globalization of law enforcement. (more details upon request) Comments (6)
John in Michigan, USA
- #13.1 - 2008-07-27 16:42 -
Christopher, Comments (14)
Pat Patterson
- #13.1.1 - 2008-07-27 20:15 -
Actually I found Christopher sadly lacking in knowledge of the US. First in that the Consitution was plainly created to guarantee the right of the majority, "We the people..." and then goes on to refer to the common defense and the general welfare. It is not really a document that promotes the rights of minorities except toleration especially when those minority rights come at the expense of the majority. I mean it seems sometimes that most of the Fulbright Scholars that come to the United States get their information about American people from Oprah and their knowledge about the Constitution from Daily Kos. Comments (5)
Christopher Paun
- #13.1.1.1 - 2008-07-28 10:14 -
@ Pat: Your argument about the constitution protecting majority rights would be right if it had not been amended. But maybe you should read the first ten amendments, also known as the bill of rights. It is specifically about individual rights. And by the way: it grants those rights also to non-US citizens. Comments (6)
SC
- #13.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-29 05:02 -
A bit of a quibble here: It certainly is not the case that non-citzens are granted rights equivalent to citizens under the US Constitution. Now, one day in the future the US Supreme Court may interpret the Constitution as it stands to mean this but at the moment it hasn't: Hamdan and other recent decisions did not go that far. In their relationship to the US Government, the US Constitution follows US citizens wherever they go and such is certainly not currently the case with non-citizens - among other things, location matters. Comments (3)
Christopher Paun
- #13.1.2 - 2008-07-28 10:20 -
@ John: Yes you are right. I think I exaggerated a bit when I said that civil liberties do not have the support of the majority. Maybe I should have said “civil liberties presently do not have sufficient support of the majority.” In general I like the attitude in US of being skeptical of to much power for the government. But I think the state of emergency is overrated. I don’t want to be cynical, but even in 2001 more Americans died in car accidents than in terrorist attacks. 9-11 was terrible, no doubt, but I think the US should switch back form emergency to normal mode. Comments (6)
John in Michigan, USA
- #13.1.2.1 - 2008-07-28 14:30 -
"even in 2001 more Americans died in car accidents than in terrorist attacks." Comments (14)
Christopher Paun
- #13.1.2.1.1 - 2008-07-28 14:42 -
Yes, indeed. Since the war on terror started, there is much less media attention for the war on drugs, although it continues. And by the way: one of those drug warriors was Bob Barr, who is now the candidate of the libertarian party. How could that have happened? With his position on drugs and gay marriage he is not really a libertarian, or what do you think? Comments (6)
John in Michigan, USA
- #13.1.2.1.1.1 - 2008-07-28 15:48 -
Interesting question re Bob Barr. When he joined the Libertarian Party, he changed his position on the issues you mention, and other issues as well. Comments (14)
John in Michigan, USA
- #13.2 - 2008-07-28 14:35 -
Christopher, Comments (14)
Christopher Paun
- #13.2.1 - 2008-07-28 15:08 -
A good comparative overview is: Hans Born, Loch K. Johnson, and Ian Leigh (2005): Who's Watching the Spies?: Establishing Intelligence Service Accountability Comments (6)
Christopher Paun
- #13.2.2 - 2008-07-28 16:11 -
Thank you for that info on Bob Barr. My previous post to your question did not get through (awaiting modereation because of link). A good comperative overview in democratic control of intelligence services is: Hans Born, Loch K. Johnson, and Ian Leigh: Who's Watching the Spies?: Establishing Intelligence Service Accountability Comments (6)
Virginia Shanahan
- #14 - 2008-07-27 17:56 -
With all due respect to the peoples of Europe but I could give rats behind what you think about our candidates. Comments (3)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #14.1 - 2008-07-27 18:09 -
"I could give rats behind what you think about our candidates." Comments (9)
Bill
- #14.1.1 - 2008-07-30 14:46 -
The correct expression is "I could give a rat's ass..." followed by whatever it is you don't give a shit about. Virginia was just being ladylike while at the same time showing her ignorance about how US national politics and US foreign policy really works. Comments (2)
Virginia Shanahan
- #15 - 2008-07-27 18:14 -
Oh certainly you are permitted to exercise free speech (unless it's considered hateful by someone and then they try to shut you down). Ain't America grand? Comments (3)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #15.1 - 2008-07-27 18:30 -
To answer your question: Obama believes that his trip to Germany will bolster his foreign policy credentials. Comments (9)
Virginia Shanahan
- #16 - 2008-07-27 18:36 -
I did watch the video and I found the peoples reactions to be in line with what I imagined they would be. Comments (3)
ADMIN
- #17 - 2008-07-28 17:05 -
Please note that by default the comments in this blog are threaded rather than linear, i.e. some of the latest comments and responses to comments are not at the bottom, but in the middle. Comment (1)
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