Tuesday, June 17. 2008
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Joe Noory - #1 - 2008-06-17 22:38 -
All well and good, but where there is a crisis within continetal Europe and its' boundaries, such as with the Balkans, Georgia, potential missile hockey, seizing Lybian cetrefuges, easing EU absorption of Baltics and Romania by way of NATO MAPping, the State Department and White House appear to be doing some of that leaderly stuff under the radar.
John in Michigan, USA - #2 - 2008-06-18 02:27 -
"I learned about this poll in the US Embassy's InfoAlert" Franchie? US conspiracy to make France look bad? To divide Europe? You've accused us of this many times, with much less evidence. Now that you have some evidence, why not accuse us (again) and make yourself feel good for a little while? Actally, Franchie, I wouldn't take this poll very seriously. It was an online poll. It looks like they took reasonable steps to prevent bloggers, hackers, etc. from hacking the poll, but they also state "Because the sample is based on those who agreed to participate in the Harris Interactive panel, no estimates of theoretical sampling error can be calculated." In other words, this is a high-quality informal poll, but not a scientific poll.
Franchie - #2.1 - 2008-06-18 08:41 -
johnny, I don't feel concerned, but you DO actually say, I am aware how Sarko is unpopular in the EU stances, whereas in The US, he is the king of the divine right Gimme a new DE Gaulle
Pat Patterson - #2.1.1 - 2008-06-18 11:17 -
Perhaps one might do some research on American attitudes toward Sarkozy first. He became a darling of the mainstream press, named one of the best dressed with Beckham and Pitt by Vanity Fair, and attracted some positive notice but generally is regarded now as yet just another European leader that can't seem to not step on his own fleshy appendage. Never mind leading the other nations of Europe in a reversal of attitude toward the US. A mere four days before the election, that neo-con bible, The Weekly Standard, editorialized that Sarkozy was less pro-American than Americans might wish and more pro-Sarkozy then they might admit. And to those hoping for a jete en tourmant in French politics, internal and external, they cautioned that, "Unfortunately, a major shift in French foreign policy is unlikely." But then he wasn't Chirac so got the benefit of the doubt.
franchie - #220.127.116.11 - 2008-06-18 13:33 -
"Sarkozy was less pro-American than Americans might wish and more pro-Sarkozy then they might admit" yes, that's what I keep repeating them, though Sarko is still one of their favorites by his jewish ancestry : same worries for ME, same aversion for islam our policy towards the US can't change, this has been patiently constructed from de Gaulle's times ; otherwise that would mean that is a failure, it can't be, we are not yet in bankrupty with it, it saved our markets and our rank in the GDP's world. Actually all the American males dream to sleep with Carla Sarkozy, that's helping little Sarko to stay in the jetset MSM revues :lol:
Joe Noory - #18.104.22.168.1 - 2008-06-18 14:39 -
Amazing. It's the 21st century, and there are European trying to make demons and look for the Jews hiding under their beds. Between that, and your assumption about Americans not knowing about the Ike quote that every American already knows says a lot. You: - want an authoritarian leader - think Jews run the world from behind a curtain - take agit-prop for face value - think that American males even pay attention to the pop-cultural chatter in France and have a thing for Carla Bruni - and think that anyone large number of people outside of Europe and francophone Africa pay any sort of attention to France and its' population's inflated self-image - think American soldiers are there for the cultural stimulation of passive, middle age Europeans Alas, a nation speaks! Last week, it was "we were all Irish", a few years ago it was "we are all American", and there were a few other "we are all (something else)" in between. I've come to find that that's a code phrase for "we're about to tell you how much we take pleasure in collectively abusing you on television, radio, magazaines, newprint, and in everyday life for another 30-40 years."
franchie - #22.214.171.124.1.1 - 2008-06-18 15:16 -
you like to play (jongler) with the clichés and twist the first meaning of a sentence in something ununderstandable I leave responsible for your assertions : when I wrote : "Sarko is still one of their favorites by his jewish ancestry : same worries for ME, same aversion for islam", I only ment what is written here (ie neocon site that I am in use to attend.) Quant à Carla, here is an ex of what I have read "FLIF" "I like that. she is a FLIF to be sure. but i would definitely cover the ole’ willy though that chick is hotter than a 2 dollar pistol but she sounds wild too The very first first lady that most would like to see nude, and remarkably not a hard task to accomplish. I don’t know any girls that aren’t hotter than a 2 dollar… 30 lovers! She must have cooties by now. i know plenty of girls that are not as hot as a 2 dollar pistol. meaning poorly made gun that will burn your hand after 1 shot hot hot She is as fine as a 67 GTO but well used!!!!!".... on a very religious, tentance creationist" site AMAZING, NO ?
Joe Noory - #126.96.36.199.1.1.1 - 2008-06-18 15:53 -
The fact that you can find one person out of 302 million to say something like that doesn't mean that that many American men all want her. To think otherwise is to get carried away. Look - things are not as singular and uniform in America. Culturally, it's a continent, not an island. As for some notion about people being sorted into convenient camps of tangible opposites - Muslims, Jews, etc., I would attribute that to the view of the outsiders from them - the "mainstream" French looking at them the way they always have: [b]in judgmental fashion from a distance[/b]. For all of their singing of "bleu-blanc-beur", relations are about 20 years behind those you find in the US. Just look at the way [url=http://www.arte.tv/fr/histoire-societe/Freedom/2032304.html]Arte[/url] is mixing up all of those concepts right now in their "freedom/black power" series that I'm sure they think is timely with Obama running for office. He isn't even attached to black southern culture in any way - his father was an immigrant from Kenya. He's a lawyer who made it some way in sleazy Chicago politics, and spent 2 years in the senate, and all of a sudden, the Arte types in Europe think that this is an opportunity to serve up an incoherent melange of Malcolm X, Jazz, the Black Panthers, and M. L. King (who was a [url=http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.DYK-Why%20MLK%20was%20a%20Republican]republican[/url]). The sad continental "intelligentsia's" concern, and their very understanding of the US or any other culture for that matter is skin-deep and fake. For all of this pretense, lesson-giving, and lecturing others, they seem to know very little about the world. That same silly, unserious, and self-serving world view can't help but think all American men are hot for Carla Bruni. [i]How could we, when we're supposedly the people who can't France is on a map?[/i] Don't you find it curious that more than even a handful of "les Amerloques" aren't equally obsessed with finding any flaw, any apparent act of stupidity in the manner that so many Europeans seem to be [url=http://www.dailymotion.com/videos/relevance/search/amerloques]fixated on[/url]? Don't you think there's something tribal, deeply foolish, and sad when so many people in many parts of Europe try to find the silly acts of individual Americans as somehow being the essense of >300 million people? At the same time trying to congratulate themselves [url=http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/search?q=Darfur]about their humanity[/url] and trying to tell themselves that they are the very essense of human rights? As for me playing the "jongleur" - all I'm doing is repeating to you what you say. It's not playing the devil's advocate, it's a display of ignorance.
franchie - #188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206 - 2008-06-18 16:04 -
funny, when someone is not sure of his argumentation,or wants absolutely have reason, he usely accuse me of ignorance LMAO
Joe Noory - #220.127.116.11.1.1.2 - 2008-06-19 01:28 -
The reviews are mixed, actually: [i]"I like that. she is a FLIF to be sure. but i would definitely cover the ole’ willy though[/i] Covering the 'ol willie means that he would wear a preservatif to protect himself from disease. [i]The very first first lady that most would like to see nude, and remarkably not a hard task to accomplish.[/i] The remarkably easy task, is that she would get naked. [i]I don’t know any girls that aren’t hotter than a 2 dollar… 30 lovers! She must have cooties by now.[/i] "ccoties" is a child's reference to an imaginary disease. [i]She is as fine as a 67 GTO but well used!!!!!"....[/i] Well used means used. The more vulgar comparison is to being "looser than a golf bag"
Pat Patterson - #18.104.22.168.2 - 2008-06-18 14:46 -
But I notice you have not coherently refuted the argument that I made that conservative thought in the US, unlike your claim that they loved Sarkozy or the almost anti-Semitic comment that he is admired because of Jewish ancestry, does not and did not have a great deal of confidence in him as being any more pro-American that Chirac. But if changing the subject or ignoring contradictory positions is your modus operandi then you certainly cannot expect much sympathy or even serious engagement. I'll ask clearly, where exactly is the evidence that conservatives viewed Sarkozy favorably?
franchie - #22.214.171.124.2.1 - 2008-06-18 15:26 -
again I return your "moral" lesson, if you can't read a word, or write a word, then your not an historian "I'll ask clearly, where exactly is the evidence that conservatives viewed Sarkozy favorably?" support of the war in afghanistan, Bush well receptionned in his EU trip (Elysées), anti-Iranians sentences, anti-Pals-sentences... that read at least once a week
Pat Patterson - #126.96.36.199.2.1.1 - 2008-06-18 17:13 -
I shouldn't judge yourself that harshly but a link to bolster your claim would be better than just making stuff up.
franchie - #188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206 - 2008-06-18 18:08 -
there are article of press agencies that are put on board, I don't fancy to digg into the blog archives to find them, though they are fitted in a complaisant way toward the Sarkomania, I don't mean that the place represent the whole percentage of the republicans, but the pro-military's, the religious' the Bush lovers', (Don gave me once a number). They also participate to Memri, Daniel Pipes think-tank, ME egyptian blog...
Pat Patterson - #220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.1 - 2008-06-18 21:25 -
Why not simply type in something to the effect of "Sarkozy popular with conservatives," instead of making excuses over nonexistent scholarship? Devil's advocate, hardly, more like that poor special child that wears a padded helmet and his imaginary friends that finds things for him.
franchie - #22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199.1.1 - 2008-06-18 21:44 -
yeah, and what about yours, professor Zebulon ? http://patdollard.com/index.php?s=sarkozy
Pat Patterson - #188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.1.1.1 - 2008-06-18 22:02 -
OK, but maybe you ought to read the link first before implying that Pat Dollard was a fan of Sarkozy. The link is in reference to the just released white paper concerning defense cutbacks and possible better cooperation with NATO by the French. Plus the photo at the top of the article seems to show two French soldiers in a rather compromising embrace with each other. But thanks for the link I've never seen two guys in uniform pose like that before.
franchie - #220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124 - 2008-06-18 22:26 -
you didn'read the comments,the pic was a joke from my best friend Drill, a texan woman with whom I am exchanging "civilities" and teasings ; and neither scoll down the whole page where there are many others articles onSarko or his wife
Pat Patterson - #126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.1 - 2008-06-18 23:37 -
The comments? Ok, now you are not even trying to be serious. Or is it ok if I quote you to prove that all French are lazy and incoherent because I read it in the comments? And none of those other articles show an abiding conservative faith in Sarkozy excepts as an object of ineptness with a very attractive wife.
franchie - #220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124.1.1 - 2008-06-19 02:18 -
hahaha, then you don't know how they fonction, or you can't read just one year ago, you ought to remember how these kind persons used to speak about us
Pat Patterson - #126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.1.1.1 - 2008-06-19 03:14 -
That's precisely my point you don't seem able to find them. Which means that "they" don't exist. Besides I'm not to sure who "us" is other than simply another change in subject. Easy to do, show how conservatives were enamoured of Sarkozy? I'll even broaden the parameters and include before and after the election? Time to put up or shut up!
John in Michigan, USA - #220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199 - 2008-06-19 09:08 -
As much as I want to encourage Franchie to do her own research and support her statements, like we all try to, in this case I happen to know she was correct and I will happily say so. Ann Coulter, who I think qualifies as conservative, went pretty ga-ga for Sarko. You could probably find support at the Wall St. Journal they were pretty happy for a while at least about Sarko. C'est Si Bon "In celebration of France's spectacular return to Western civilization, I bought a Herve Leger dress on Monday, and we're having croissants for breakfast every day this week. This delicate French pastry, by the way, is in the shape of a crescent to commemorate the Crusaders' victory over Islam. Aren't the French just peachy?" It gets better. She is serious in liking Sarko, although she tents to make up anecdotes (like the bit about the origin of the croissant -- she's being ironic) for fun. She also prefers hyperbole over serious arguments, while insisting that she means every word. Very french, in a way. Me, I never expected major policy changes from Sarko, but the mere fact that someone could win who was widely seen (and attacked) as pro-American, was a revolution of sorts. It is also remarkable that since the time of the Iraq war, Europe's new leaders (except for the UK's Brown) tend to be more pro-American than their predecessors.
franchie - #188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.1 - 2008-06-19 11:12 -
Thank you John your doing journalism studies aren't you ? that explains that you have no bigoted answer to whatever I say on that board It is also true, that, I am not doing a "scholar" research to prove how the mentalities have changed in the US towards France since Sarko was elected.... otherwise, I would have to bring on that board, all the US places that I visit, all the "one article once a month" in the US papers...too fuckin boring ! Mr professor Barbichon would say that I am lazy, yeah, clever boy, your repeating the old racist clichés behind your estrade. My argument is that, even if I bring you a thesis on that subject, you would still find a virus in there. So, now, it's me who is telling you that your a lazy mind that is confortable behing his phd (?), though that isn't a proof your intelligent for so.
John in Michigan, USA - #22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.1.1 - 2008-06-20 18:14 -
"your doing journalism studies aren't you ?" No, I am just a citizen who reads a lot and blogs. Sorry, I don't understand the longer paragraph you wrote - if you prefer to write in French that is fine. I can read French pretty well, it is just very slow for me to write in French.
franchie - #220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199.1.1.1 - 2008-06-20 19:26 -
John, nevermind, sometimes I live in another planet :lol:
Pat Patterson - #188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.2 - 2008-06-19 12:26 -
There is always an outlier, but thanks John for showing that research to support a point of view is possible. But I think franchie still has a ways to go to prove that conservatives were enamoured with Sarkozy while I think you're own particular take is probably closer to the mark.
franchie - #22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.2.1 - 2008-06-19 18:24 -
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/05/27/france.responses/index.html can't see one of the "pasaran" fellows appreciation in there
Joe Noory - #220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199.2.1.1 - 2008-06-20 17:21 -
Am I to understand that if ONE President with a 6 year term says a few nice things about the US, all of the tactical undermining, verbal and cultural abuse by the public, obsessive hatred - that all of that should just be forgotten?
franchie - #188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124 - 2008-06-20 18:36 -
Joe you like to stirr the old pains, it's your commercial agenda ! sorry, but I have been reading a lot more hateful discourses on your Atlantic side
Joe Noory - #126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206.220.127.116.11.3 - 2008-06-19 15:05 -
How is it that we live in a world where opinions are taken to be more important than actions? As we've noted earlier, Americans are just revieved that we get a pause from the the decades old presistent and inherent cultural demonization. We went over this when "patriotic-America" David prattled on about how very distateful it was that there were Americans who were happy about Merkel's election. As if he would have ever noted the same thing if there was an American anywhere who noted the same if Gerhard Schroeder or Ségolène Royal had won. They appreciate Sarkozy for his open desire to deflate the drama from anti-americanism in France (becuase it's grown into a obsessive hateful distraction burdening the French, more than having an effect on America). But to try to sneer at it as a sort of infatuation? Stop stroking your egos.
John in Michigan, USA - #18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52 - 2008-06-19 09:17 -
[url=http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20645]C'est Si Bon[/url]
Joe Noory - #2.1.2 - 2008-06-18 13:09 -
If you want a new de Gaulle, then why do you accept unquestioningly every [i]fantasme gauchiste[/i] opinion piece you see as fact?
franchie - #184.108.40.206 - 2008-06-18 13:23 -
hein ? not at alll, I often get those to play the devil advocat part he, you gave so many opportunities to perform it :lol:
Hugo Santos - #3 - 2009-05-25 16:32 -
It is said that germany is the engine of Europe's economy... And i don't get surprised by thhat... They were decimated by 2 world wars and they always recover impressively.
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