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America Might Not be the Greatest Country on Earth

Why is there so much Anti-Americanism? Lewis Black gives one explanation in a Broadway comedy show in 2004:
The most important part of travel, is when you come home. Because, that's when you see your country with new eyes. I was amazed to realize that we're - we're the only country that - that tells the rest of the world, on a nearly constant basis, that we're the greatest country on Earth. And that is a little f***in' obnoxious! And they know it's obnoxious. Because, if you were in an office, and there was someone there, who came in every day and said; "I'm the greatest fucker here! And you snivelling shits would die without me! Ahahahaha!" I can guarantee that by the end of the week, you'd have killed him! And eaten him, just to try to possess his power!

The Youtube video below includes the above quote and some funny comments about US obsession with health and about milk:

Or shall we chill out and ignore both the Europeans, who complain about US arrogance, and the Americans, who complain about Anti-Americanism in Western Europe? After all boasting about one's country might be considered pretty normal around the world, except in Western Europe. Many Western Europeans dislike nationalism and boasting and instead prefer to put down arrogant others. At least this is what one commenter suggested as previously mentioned:

I think anti-Americanism is some kind of weird, inverted nationalism for people who don't think nationalism is cool (think about it, what better way to believe in the superiority of your nation without being explicit about it?)

Related posts in the Atlantic Review:

America's Cultural Superiority

The Anti-Americans and the Manichaean Narcissists

Is it Anti-Americanism or just Disappointment and Sensitivity?

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MKL-2 on :

This topic make no sense at all. Like the stupid question "Is Nazi Germany 's racism rhetoric(Nordic superiority) reasonable?" Would you mind I change the question "America Might Not be the Greatest Hypocritic Country on Earth". I guess both the answer is no? Every one can enlarge that unpopular country lists to meet his or her pity self-esteem / patriotics. US,Britain ,China , Russia,German are all handy options for the most evil state on earth? I guess different people people have different choice. Maybe we can enumerate crimes of each these countries to go on with this game.

Merkel-2 on :

The Greatest country on earth? That calling easily lead to insults from anti-US strength. They have their own proofs to prove that US is a great country and also an evil state as well. US faces long-term risks from tough IRAQ and IRAN stance US's high-pitched response to unrest across IRAQ has muffled questions at home about policy missteps but is entrenching hardline positions likely to cramp room for flexibility in the region long after labeling IRAQ religious leader Sadr and Mahdi Army as terrorist force. US popular opinion has strongly backed the government's claims that Sadr and its followers planned most of the bloodshed and unrest in order to disrupt IRAQ’s peace process. US occupation army Officials now brand the Sadr a murderous criminal, a terrorist and worse, but Pentagon hardliners recently repeated his government's position that it is open to possible dialogue. Sadr and Mahdi Army’s position in Iraq government is negotiable. State department security and propaganda chiefs seem to have grabbed hold of policy, says a senoir diplomat. Only half year left before the new US government in position, Congress's leaders have appeared to the world short of confidence,passion in partisan struggles, Nancy Pelosi dressed in anti-war and anti-kyoto suit rather than the human right suits she like to wear. Hardly what their media propaganda planned for Bush administration and congress. Some hawky Pentagon chief had emerged as the loudest advocate of state policy, vowing more of tough policies they pushed during the years of turbulence in Iraq. They insist US troops life should give the first priority before any military budgets is evaluated. Before the outbreak of Iraq War,Western media carry out a disinformation campaign against Iraq government and Sadam. They insults on Sadam as : A "murder and the biggest sponsor of 911 events" and a demonic "evil mind to conquer the whole world with WMD " were among them. But by applying a political bludgeon rather than a scalpel to the tense region of Iraq, US is risking longer-term hazards. "Even if you blame the Sadam’s involvement in 911 events and involvement in nuclear program, slogans can't be a substitute for policy no mention to powerful evidences" said one anti-war activist, "The politicization and propaganda in Western media are leaving deeper problems to pile up unaddressed."

Joe Noory on :

I've had to hear this same tired argument for three decades. Americans say that to one another out of their pride. Most people do something of the same sort, though having had most of their optimism beaten out of them, many Europeans don't. I'm not sure what it is that threatens people to discover that many Americans have some pride in their society, unless their optimism about life is so fragile that they need the rest of the world to join them in their torpor. Another curious thing I find in the Euro-zeitgeist is that those things about which they permit themselves to show some pride are usually the handful of items pushed in the media, and are not so much abstract but obscure, and are almost entirely imported: something about globla warming (the environmental movement started with seriousness in the US), demanding human rights for some cultures who appeal to them somehow, and a celebration of anything socially marginal as a something about which pride needs to be constructed, no matter how foolish it is (such as "transgendered rights",) as though there was some a giant population of the disposessed in the pigeon-holed identity du jour that couldn't live without someone talking about them even if nothing ever comes of it. In short: we're bored. The same stale raft of peevish complaints have been repeated about the US for decades while these same whiners stood by watching most of the horrors of the past centuries have finally gotten to the point where they're wring their hands, but still do nothing about them. Case in point: Merkel's recycling of the "pentagon" "arms lobby," "slavery," the blanket assumtion that any American move is to be detested, blah-bla-blah to focus his ire without for a moment noticing the NATO symbol nested in armsmaker EADS' logo, the European origins of colonial era slavery, etc. You'll also note that the term "western leaders" is being applied to place the european governments and leaders on par with the American, Russian, and Chinese when they have had neither initialted any sort of real corrective change that required a substantive committment, or have had virtually nothing to do with any meaningful issue that didn't ammount to an economic benefit to themselves in the past generation. Which brings us back to this point of being proud of your own society - the public is probably quite right to have to grasp at marginal things to find some comfort that they have accomplished something, somewhere, but I don't see why they should fixate of damaging Americans' optimism to do it. Having seen it go on for so long, I also have doubts that the optimism of Americans really can be torn apart from afar in your lifetimes anyway.

merkel-2 on :

Joe Noory - #2 - 2008-04-09 14:07 - (Reply) I've had to hear this same tired argument for three decades. Americans say that to one another out of their pride. Most people do something of the same sort, though having had most of their optimism beaten out of them, many Europeans don't. comment: Every emperor enjoy such kind of eulogizing in history. Nazi German think the 3rd empire is the greatest country in world and Nordic ethnic people is superior to other ethnic people. Colonial Britain brag its greatness for Great Britain's almost half-world colonial lands, which cross Africa , Asia ,North America,Latin America ,even the Oceania. I guess if Antarctic or Arctic got settlers, Britain will definitely proclaim they are totally barbarian pagan and colonize that "country". Every one has its reasons to feel good. if no offence to me,I have no interest in breaking up yankee's self-intoxication. Joe,You can call that point "America Might (Not) be the Greatest Country on Earth" is out of arrogance and ignorance.

Merkel-2 on :

You heard that tired arguments for decades. I know such kind of blatant allegations(like: in history which country is the greatest power in the world) for thousands years. No competition here.

Joe Noory on :

[i]"Every one has its reasons to feel good. if no offence to me,I have no interest in breaking up yankee's self-intoxication. Joe,You can call that point "America Might (Not) be the Greatest Country on Earth" is out of arrogance and ignorance."[/i] So, you have no interest in harming anyone, but are perfectly willing to call other people's pride "self-intoxication", and will cite an "arrogance and ignorance" borne out of repetition in the media. Find me one feature of that "arrogance and ignorance" that's unique to Americans, and I can shown you the long authoritarian-abiding old-world tradition of taking any kind of appealing propaganda at face value. You'll also not that the vengeful streak common in Europeans is not a subject Americans dwell on. Of course you'll say that all 302 m,illion of us are too ignorant to be aware of it... more self-serving hatred, a negative trait that outpaces any degree of American optimism. Why don't you just try that nonsense with any other nation in any football stadium in Europe. Moreover, instead of operating on some 'home truth' not backed up by fact about what you're assuming is the nature of 302 million people, why don't you back it up with fact - the kind that ARE unique. Are you trying to convince yourself that the culture you live in is angelic? a victim? If you have some difficulty with the optimism of a population an ocean away from you, I think it's time to take an inventory of your own motives and question your own well being.

Merkel on :

Joe: [url=www.anti-cnn.com Find me one feature of that "arrogance and ignorance" that's unique to Americans, and I can shown you the long authoritarian-abiding old-world tradition of taking any kind of appealing propaganda at face value. You'll also not that the vengeful streak common in Europeans is not a subject Americans dwell on. Of course you'll say that all 302 m,illion of us are too ignorant to be aware of it... more self-serving hatred, a negative trait that outpaces any degree of American optimism.[/url] Comment: [url=www.anti-cnn.com "Arrogance and ignorance" is unique to American [/url], That is totally absurd. Joe , If anyone lash out such irresponsible words , I will back you with evidences. Take a historical point-of-view,US is more civilized than Old Europe(Britain, France, German,Russia). US people are basically well-educated and well informed(relatively speaking) ,I have no doubt that egotism is not the mainstream in US. I don't think anyone can draw a conclusion that this article can echo US grass-roots perception about their motherland. I personally very appreciate US vast spports to China during Japanese invasion. Many native Chinese people have gratitude and hatred feeling towards US. We desire for further democracy and freedom in China,but can not tolerate US's ambitions to dismember China. US can not accept Russia, China to be a force capable to challenge US hegemony. It's a pity US's alliance like France, German is also under supervision. US will not let the EU develop to a comparable strength to US. That's the geopolitics have nothing to do with personal preference.

Kevin Sampson on :

'Many native Chinese people have gratitude and hatred feeling towards US.' Yeah, one of our guides when we visited China a couple of years ago hated the US so much he asked me to help him emigrate here.

Merkel on :

[url]Yeah, one of our guides when we visited China a couple of years ago hated the US so much he asked me to help him emigrate here.[/url] I personally believe your words are true. Many people want to emigrate US or EU . They have their own explanations like economic benefits,democracy and freedom. Considering the possible discrimination or prejudice based on race many people back off their position to emigrate to US or EU. It's very hard for Chinese people to fully integrate into US mainstream and achieve success there. Chinese immigrant people marginalize as the islam immigrants is in France and British. Althogh admire US high income, social welfare, democracy and freedom, those underdogs in China will not flatter western powers' anti-Chinese motives. They cherish China's integrity and dignity. We had to admit that western powers disgracefully commit many crimes in China and elsewhere. I think it is no use for Western powers to be paranoid on native Chinese people 's hatred. Look at Western media's highly biased coverages in Lhasa, every chinese people got the feeling that western powers ' manipulation on Tibet is against all Chinese, what make the whole thing unacceptable is western powers held an [url=www.anti-cnn.com]racist view [/url] to encourage Tibet people to attack Chinese. We had seen US's play against those Yugoslavia states, encourage racist hatred,instigate clashes between differnt people,then using overwhelming propaganda mechine to describe it as a genocide or HR disaster. then Eu or NATO interference will wipe out pro-Russia strength. Western powers' double standard show on issue like Tibet and Caucasia make them the hypocrite to Chinese people. I doubt that will Chinese people be more amicable and more friendly to those country who want to dismember China. If China's democracy evlove in the anti-western direction, I guess the western world will not welcome that kind of freedom and democracy. Kevin ,I am not willing to be a defender for China communist party, So if you got problem with them , go on with your condemnation. I would like to see more facts to encourage mainland authority making progress. If you have some updating information on Chinse government's misconducts, I would appreciate your help. You know , at this time the grass-root chinese people forgive those "crimes" in culture revolution(1966-1976). they take a realistic yet perspective view on China's current situation and China's future. Decline or stagnation happened in western world and China seems can not pull its reins of the over-heating ecconomy. We chinese people is optimism about future's democracy and freedom(i mean high-level than it is now) in China. We just don't know for sure will the western power give China the opportunity to be a big power. In western powers' history all the rising power would facing hostile soroundding. I hope western powers don't do something stupid (driving by their jeolosy)

Pat Patterson on :

We marginalize the Chinese so much that we forced Jerry Yangto to found Yahoo and remain its CEO for $1.00 a year salary. Well he is worth a couple of billion dollars and has billions more in stock options but he is not allowed in restaurants or cabs. And next time I visit my doctor, a second generation American citizen, of Hoa extraction I'll ask her about all those years at USC and Harvard where she had to sit in the back of the bus and walk on the street when white students were on the sidewalks. She'll probably start laughing so hard that I won't be able to ask any questions about my health. Maybe I'll wait till after she finishes the exam and I can ask her about that and her brother who graduated from the USNA and served in Iraq with the USMC for two tours and is going back to school at Georgetown to join the State Department. But he won't be going to China as he and his sister were not allowed to speak Chinese or Vietnamese at home by their parents. Because they are not Chinese but Americans now!

Merkel on :

[url=www.anti-cnn.com]Pat: We marginalize the Chinese so much that we forced Jerry Yangto to found Yahoo and remain its CEO for $1.00 a year salary. Well he is worth a couple of billion dollars and has billions more in stock options but he is not allowed in restaurants or cabs. [/url] There are about 3~4 millions of chinese. Only a tiny number of Chinese people succeed in US society. I can enlarge that lists with several more succesful Chinese-American like Mrs. Secretary of Labor, Elaine Chao ,3 Nobel winners, CA computer company's chairman of its board of directors. Comparing to these successful men and women, many oversea Chinese people got problem in social integration. Don't you think you evidence is poor for your points. US ended its disgraceful history of discrimination only decades ago. The policy and practice of imposing the social separation of races, as in schools, housing, and industry, especially so as to practice discrimination against people of color in a predominantly white society. Do you know When McCarthyism prevail , the oversea Chinese became the victims of politic struggle. I guess there are some other reasons except their race,their color to disbelieve their loyalty. That's the history! what about the Deadly riots happened in LA which sparks racist fire and roars. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently address in a ceremony commemorating Martin Luther King, US have a long way to fulfil Dr. king's dream. I guess you notice during the current election ,some candidates and their assistants use race factors to gain their immoral benefits.(I admit that trick may not be law-breaking activities) As to that second generation American citizen(your doctor),I understand her choice, in order to integrate mainstream US society they had to give up Chinese or Vietnamese culture and identification. No much choice left for her.

Pat Patterson on :

Now you are not even trying, according to the US Census Bureau report from 2000, native born Chinese and foreign born Chinese graduate from college and graduate school at a rate of over 2&1/2 times that of white Americans. They are the most successful immigrant group in the country in this century. Also Chinese immigration to the US tripled during the period of HUAC and SISS. Those at the wrong end of the stick during that period were generally Jewish intellectuals and communists with recent links to Europe. Though of the much lionized Hollywood Ten scholarship has shown that they all were indeed members of the CPUSA. The biggest jump in Chinese immigration came during the 1987 Tiananmen Square demonstrations. Plus the US offered citizenship to any Chinese scholar in the US without having to go through the normal wait. Which meant that virtually all the Chinese speaking and trying to speak English graduate assistants at my alma mater stayed and continued to torture entry level math and physics majors for years to come. Everybody that comes to America has to give up part of their national and ethnic culture just as any American or British businessman or fellow traveler better learn Chinese and try to pass as a native in China. All for the good.

Merkel on :

[url=WWW.ANTI-COM.CN]Moreover, instead of operating on some 'home truth' not backed up by fact about what you're assuming is the nature of 302 million people, why don't you back it up with fact - the kind that ARE unique. Are you trying to convince yourself that the culture you live in is angelic? a victim? If you have some difficulty with the optimism of a population an ocean away from you, I think it's time to take an inventory of your own motives and question your own well being.[/url] Comment Joe, I never assume such silly thread as "US is greatest country on earth" highlights 302 million people's aspirations. You can even not identified the author ,Joerg Wolf is an American guy. What make you think his boring and unreasonable topic reflect all American people's mind ? I think it is an insult to American people's wisdom. China is far from angelic state? what lead you to such misunderstanding here? look at the first post under this thread: [url=www.anti-cnn.org]Every one can enlarge that unpopular country lists to meet his or her pity self-esteem / patriotics. US,Britain ,China , Russia,German are all handy options for the most evil state on earth? I guess different people have different choice. Maybe we can enumerate crimes of each these countries to go on with this game.[/url] I think China is comparable player to US,Britain ,Russia,German for the most evil states in many people's mind. So the question once againt appears : Do we need to blame China or Palestine each other to go on this silly game. Frankly speaking ,I have not interest to radically argue with people from deveolping country. I want to fight for truth with brainwashed westerners like Paterson. Western media's long time popaganda make him instinctively maintain western powers interests . He insist that Slave trade in Africa ended after colonization and he disagree with President Clinton's appologies to African People for slave trade. Every country 's people have their reasons to feel proud of its country's history,culture,beautiful sceneries etc... ,I respect that feeling if it does not overplay to challenge my patriotic feeling. I don't mind what other people said , true or false, real or phantom? IF someone use distorted and false information to smear my homecountry,Then there is my obligation to poke out those balloons full of [url=www.anti-cnn.com]western media's propaganda[/url]. I had provide so many history facts to prove Paterson that Tibet historically belong to CHina, There was no imagined referendum in Tibet in 1951, There are several US presidents and bunch of high profile US generals make nuclear bomb threat. You once send posts to request me not to dig out history to humiliate western powers. Such civilized powers had cut linkage to its colonization crimes. So if you want me prove my points , I will be honoured to satisfy you with substatial proof(s). But please don't exagerate my points too much. To express your loyalty as an immigrant is understandable but not appreciated. You may enjoy fighting with an imaginative "Merkel"(i mean in your mind not in reality) but I don't. I bring Paterson under spotlight,not because I dislike him. I need someone to take the opposite side , and let me disclose what western powers did and do. A british guy is more welcome, I want to talk with him about the two Great Britain's leagcy(flashpoints)- Kashmir issue and Sino-india border dispute. I am familiar with Asian history.

Pat Patterson on :

This is tedious beyond belief. The reference to a supposed referendum in Tibet was SATIRE. And the fact that proof was asked for indicates that Merkel simply couldn't recognize that statement for what it was. SATIRE. The West, though benefitting from slavery, also ended it while the Chinese government was till selling its peasants to Chinese gangs in California to dig in the mines or work in the brothels. Much like the thousands of blue jumpsuited Chinese "tourists" that were sent to Africa in the 70's and 80's and then simply abandoned by their government when China found that the cost far exceeded the benefit. Merekel simply continues to offer bizarre opinions as facts and as yet as provided not one single leak for any of the claims he has made. The list is becoming as long and as dense as the Bhagavad Gitta which I'm sure that Merkel will now claim was written in Mandarin or the slightly more earthy Cantonese and then stolen by the Indians. Which of course is merely a lost colony of China that will eventually see the error of its way and beg to brought back into the fold. I'm still waiting for an answer to the first charge that Merkel made that Sen. McCain and his aides were committing dirty tricks in the current campaign.

Merkel on :

[URL=www.anti-cnn.com] This is tedious beyond belief. The reference to a supposed referendum in Tibet was SATIRE. And the fact that proof was asked for indicates that Merkel simply couldn't recognize that statement for what it was. SATIRE [/url] My linguistics capability (in English) is not good enough to understand your SATIRE. Your sense of humor is definitely beyond my understanding. When you said the referendum happend in Tibet in 1951 and used the referendum to counter-claim Tibet 's independence, Your tone, your steadfast position made me think you are serious about what you are talking about. Sorry for ignoring your entertaining "referendum" joke, But I do need blame you for illogical reasoning here. You fabricate "Tibet referendum in 1951" then using this to prove that [URL=www.anti-cnn.com] "Merkel simply couldn't recognize that statement for what it was. "[/url], That make no sense at all. How can I recognize the faked "referendum" only for flattering you.

Merkel on :

[url=www.anti-cnn.com]Pat: Merekel simply continues to offer bizarre opinions as facts and as yet as provided not one single leak for any of the claims he has made. The list is becoming as long and as dense as the Bhagavad Gitta which I'm sure that Merkel will now claim was written in Mandarin or the slightly more earthy Cantonese and then stolen by the Indians. Which of course is merely a lost colony of China that will eventually see the error of its way and beg to brought back into the fold.[/url] Although I don't know what these words("Bhagavad Gitta") supposed to mean, I do think your way of thinking is abnormal here. How can you claim something is mine but actually it isn't. I once told Mr bashy that paterson will misbehave sometime. Like what CNN or BBC did in its Lhasa coverages. The border disputes between China and India is a legacy of British colonization like kashmir disputes between Pak and India. Bhagavad Gitta is tibetan words or indian words, I don't know. I will not make comments on that. You can express your childish sentiment by arbitrarily conjecturing my claim and disclaim. If you think that is helpful to your points. Paterson, I suggest you to peruse Maxwell's work on 1962 sino-india border war. That book disclose why the disputes evolved into a border war in the end. India think China dare not make counter-reaction when China confronted US in Taiwan straits, Nehru's Forward Policy lead to India force 's irresponsible insults against PLA. India military action meets with Chinese quick and determined response. Nehru government gave up his hardline policy and the disputes stay as it were. China's strategic priority is on Taiwan not on Tibet. China back off from the battle ground and even back off 20 miles away from the practical Line-of-control (before the border war). After that border war, China ignored India's supports for Tibet anti-China's strength and made no strong action on CIA 's sabotaging camp for Tebitan terrorists. China embarked on perpartion for the complicated situation of US 7th Navy fleet stationing in TW. China would rather showdown with US on Taiwan issue. I had give you weblink and excerpt. Don't make me disappointed again!

Pat Patterson on :

Is that the same Neville Maxwell that predicted that India would collapse in the 1960's and was a member of the Australian Communist Party?

Pamela on :

Oh please Joerg, not this tired old meme again. Anti-Americanism has existed in Europe since before there was an America, i.e., before the Revolution. See James W. Ceaser's "Reconstruction America: The Symbol of America in Modern Thought". Buffon, de Pauw, et. al., came up with an entire biological theory to describe life on a continent they'd never observed - 'degeneracy' - which they used to describe every living thing here, be it native or imported as inferior to anything found in Europe. Continue on through the German Romantics, whose Heinrich Heine referred to us as "That pig-pen of freedom/boors living in equality". We have no sense of 'volk'. (Yeah, that worked well for you). Anti-Americanism a pathology in the European psyche used to salve whatever outrages against European self-importance they are dealing with at the moment. And this: "After all boasting about one's country might be considered pretty normal around the world, except in Western Europe." That should have come with a spew alert. France. 'Chauvinism' is not an Italian word. Those of us who have made a study of anti-Americanism in Europe know that it's not about us. It's about you. Hence, it's difficult for any honest, fair-minded criticism of the U.S.to be heard in that context. Do you think I'm exaggerating or trying to make excuses? No. This is what the Germans consider an acceptable diplomat to the U.S. From 2005. ----------------------------- But the diplomat had no patience for my small talk. Apropos of nothing, he said he had recently made a study of U.S. tax laws and concluded that practices here were inferior to those in Germany. Given recent rates of German economic growth, I found this comment odd. But I offered no rejoinder. I was, after all, a guest in his home. The diplomat, however, was just getting started. Bad as U.S. economic policy was, it was as nothing next to our human-rights record. Had I read the recent Amnesty International report on Guantanamo? "You mean the one that compared it to the Soviet gulag?" Yes, that one. My host disagreed with it: The gulag was better than Gitmo, since at least the Stalinist system offered its victims a trial of sorts. Nor was that all. Civil rights in the U.S., he said, were on a par with those of North Korea and rather behind what they had been in Europe in the Middle Ages. When I offered that, as a journalist, I had encountered no restrictions on press freedom, he cut me off. "That's because The Wall Street Journal takes its orders from the government." By then we had sat down at the formal dining table, with our backs to Ground Zero a half-mile away and our eyes on the boats on the river below us. My wife and I made abortive attempts at ordinary conversation. We were met with non sequiturs: "The only people who appreciate American foreign policy are poodles." After further bizarre pronouncements, including a lecture on the illegality of the Holocaust under Nazi law, my wife said that she felt unwell. We gathered our things and left. --------------- A lecture on the illegality of the Holocaust under Nazi law. Right. From a German diplomat to the United States. So, no, after countless examples like this, I don't take anti-Americanism as something to be given credence as anything other than an illness. Here's the link to this little gem http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110006834

Pat Patterson on :

That was Brett Stephens and soon after I believe that particular diplomat had to return to Germany for pressing family business.

franchie on :

"France. 'Chauvinism' is not an Italian word" of course it is derivated from[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Chauvin]Nicholas Chauvin[/url "Sciovinismo", that was I heard lately from Berluscony though ; kinda Alitalia panegyrism there! "Those of us who have made a study of anti-Americanism in Europe know that it's not about us. It's about you. Hence, it's difficult for any honest, fair-minded criticism of the U.S.to be heard in that context". your right, it's about "us", the EU, as an original entity that have a hard time to set our own rules in our play-ground, without that Uncle Sam threatens us with a spanking for not behaving, because we owe him so much, and that he doesn't like to be left by his offspring that became adult without he noticed it. he, who is whinning all the time that we don't love/like them ? We also criticise our own politic responsables ; now that the mondialisation is on the net, allow us to criticise US policy too ; that doesn't mean that we contempt the very people in the US.

David on :

We can learn something from business: those companies that don't embrace continuous improvement processes or adopt best practices are doomed to fail in the long run. We can see many once great enterprises that have fallen on hard times because they became arrogant and failed to adapt to a changing market: General Motors, Citibank and Motorola come to mind. The same forces apply to America: we can learn from other countries and improve. Or we can rest on our laurels (and arrogance) and continue to sink - like the the US-Dollar.

Pat Patterson on :

That's odd I was thinking the same thing about British Leyland, Hotchkiss, Peugeot, Saab, Volvo, Jaguar, Barings Bank, Societe General, Northern Rock, Rolls Royce, Volkswagen or Deutsche Telecom. Or to paraphrase "...we can rest on out laurels..." and subsidize failing companies because we're smart enough to know that someone with MPA from Harvard is much smarter and socially conscious than a guy with a MBA from Wharton.

Kevin Sampson on :

Don't forget BMW, chopping 8,500 jobs in Germany and hiring 500 in Kentucky.

Don S on :

Does that mean one Yank is worth 17 Germans? ;)

franchie on :

Don, that only means that the dollar is so LOW that is quit a benefit to manufacture german cars there ; at least, you got 40 millions of "latinos" that would probably prefer a german car to a japanese car, ; hehe, a prestige question there too :lol:

Don S on :

I agree - it's FAR more prestigious to manufacture in the US . Better workers, too! ;)

franchie on :

nono, the latinos would prefer to buy a BMW, cause that is the car that a "new rich" wants to buy for showing off ; and they would also manufacture it, cause they are the only workers left there !

Don S on :

So the Beemer is now the favored ride of drug-dealers and other flashy latino folks, are you saying? ;) I think Latin industrialists are more Merc or maybe Lexus types. ;)

franchie on :

it's just one of the options, cause on the old continent it's how it appears

Noory on :

That's so simplistic, that it's condescending. As is people were that monolithic and predictable!

franchie on :

joe, your alone interest is only to prove your a nice guy ? Be sure I am convinced of that, though your conversation tends to denigrate the average french population ; did I ever told you that my first name is related to the Belgian kings ? BUT, I am still a villan and proud of it

Kevin Sampson on :

You obviously don't know crap about latino culture in the US. http://www.lowridermagazine.com/index.html See how many European cars you can spot.

franchie on :

yeah, BUT, are those american cars still manufactured ? I think they are more in rich collectionors' garage that just drive them for pleasure or for old fashioned cars rallyes

Kevin Sampson on :

"are those american cars still manufactured ?" The Magnum is. The others may or may not be. "I think they are more in rich collectionors' garage that just drive them for pleasure or for old fashioned cars rallyes" You would be wrong. They may be driven only for pleasure, but I can assure that very few of the guys that build these are rich. A few posts back you were telling us that 'the latinos would prefer to buy a BMW, cause that is the car that a "new rich" wants to buy for showing off'. Now you're saying that the classic Detroit lead sleds 'are more in rich collectionors' garage that just drive them for pleasure or for old fashioned cars rallyes'. Since you are such an authority on the automotive preferences of the American wealthy, which is it?

Pat Patterson on :

As a brand Oldsmobile is the only one not currently being produced. The Impala still is and is Chevrolet's best selling car last year. As Kevin pointed most of these guys are not wealthy and end up with valuable cars simply because of the thousands of hours they put into restoring and modifying them in their own garages. Come to Centennial Park in Santa Ana on any nice weekend for the informal car shows of hundreds of lowrider cars and the only German make you'll find their might be the guy from the IRS making sure that sales tax is collected. Many immigrants from the south remain Chevy or GM fans for the rest of their lives because of the millions of 305/350 V8s produced since 1962. Wealthy Latinos tend to gravitate towards Cadillacs and Lincolns. BMWs and Mercedes are for, as it was colorfully explained to me, "white pinche pendejos."

franchie on :

I am not an authority, just that I can read articles, though your a bit touchy when it comes to your "antic" and "dreamful" industry that we can only watch in MOVIES now

Kevin Sampson on :

'I am not an authority, just that I can read articles' OK, so how about supplying links to some of these articles, so we can all read them. 'though your a bit touchy when it comes to your "antic" and "dreamful" industry that we can only watch in MOVIES now' WTF?

franchie on :

one example 20/01/08, "Three cars sold for more than a million dollars each at the premier US car auctions, with a one-of-a-kind 1963 Chevrolet Corvette from Italy’s Pininfarina pulling in 1.6 million dollars, the auctioneer said Sunday. The week-long annual Barrett-Jackson sale of collector cars in Scottsdale, Arizona also saw buyers put out one million dollars for a brand new 2009 Corvette ZR-1 — the first to hit the market — before the 10-12 percent commission charged by the auctioneer. And another one million dollars was bid for one of the sale’s oldest cars, a 1928 Duesenberg dual cowl Phaeton, a favorite of Hollywood stars of the time. Legendary race car builder Carroll Shelby, 85, was on hand at the sale to see his own personal 1969 GT500 Ford Mustang bring in 675,000 dollars, three times the estimate. A second GT500 once owned by Shelby’s son earned 330,000 dollars — a handsome gain for the seller who paid 24,000 for it in 1991. They were among some 1,100 collectible cars up for sale this year at Barrett-Jackson’s 37-year-old sale. The week-long auction closed Sunday. Highlights also included the 1966 Ford Thunderbird used in the iconic film “Thelma and Louise,” which the two stars drive over a cliff into the Grand Canyon in the film’s last frames. That earned 65,000 dollars, 50 percent above the estimate, but far behind another well known Hollywood car, the 1969 Dodge Charger “General Lee” from “Dukes of Hazzard,” which sold for 450,000 dollars. Sales generally appeared weaker this year than last, though final figures won’t be known until Monday. In 2007, 16 cars topped the half-million dollar mark, while this year only 11 reached that figure. Industry figures had earlier described the market as soft in the face of a sharp US economic slowdown, especially for muscle cars popular with US collectors, but had expressed hopes that buyers from abroad, especially Russians and Middle Easterners, would drive the action. “The Russians are becoming real players. A lot of bling, they love Mercedes and Corvettes,” said Mark Hyman of Hyman Ltd. Classic Cars. “The market for the quality, the best cars, is strong,” said Tom duPont, who publishes the duPont Registry, which specializes in fine cars. “There’s a limited number of supplies, a fairly significant number of bidders or buyers, and on top of that you have the impact of the imbalance of the US currency, which is making these cars very attractive to European and Middle Eastern buyers. “Particularly when it comes to high performance European supercars, and classics.” "

Joe Noory on :

That view of people is so simplistic and single-minded. Can't you imagine that these collector's auctions represent something very small in a big country? That seizing on them as an observation of something minute isn't indicitive of much of anything.

franchie on :

yes, Joe, your more open-minded than the single-mindeds tribes. I am enjoying there a gourmet delight :lol:

Don S on :

It's an interesting philosophical question, but the answer depends wholey on your criteria. On a historical basis defined in terms of being important culturally and militarily for a very long time, the US may not make the top ten because it simply hasn't been around long enough. Candidates measured by this criteria would include China, Italy (Imperial Rome), Greece (Athens/Sparta/Macedon), Turkey (Istanbul, Antioch, Hittites/Troy/many others), Egypt, Iraq (Babylon/Ninevah/Bagdhad), Iran (Persopolis), India, and possibly France and the UK, even though they are relative arrivistes on the world scene. In terms of cultural importance a top ten would include France, UK, Italy, Austria, Germany, US (yes), Russia, Greece (Magna Graecia included parts of Italy, Sicily, and even France not to mention the massive impact of Hellenic culture), and probably Egypt, Iraq, and Spain. In terms of military, cultural, and enterprise over the last century the US has a clear lead, with the UK, France, Germany, and Russia trailing by a considerable margin. Extend that to two centuries plus (since 1776, say) I think the US still comes first but by a nose over the UK and France.

Elisabetta on :

Don: Hated to do it, but I would give the nod to the UK over the US in a post 1776 ranking. The Empire created British societies amongst the indigenous peoples. At best, American influence, even in Asia where you could say our influence on Japan has had its most drastic impact, we have not created/supplanted a culture but refined one. Think about India. Is Indian culture, outside of religion, even conceivable without British meddling? Or Carribean culture? Singapore, Hong Kong, Oz, Kiwi land, South Africa, Kenya...American cultural influence distructs and destabilizes; it does not create or supplant. The closest example off the top of mah head I can think of is the Phillipines. They do use a hybrid common law/ civil law system with aspects of both legal traditions in a dysfunctional gestalt. However, our bootprints pale in comparison to the influence the Brits have had. Anyway, my list would read: UK, US, Germany, and then France. The krauts get overlooked because of bad behaviour but they did create the research university, the research institute, the Prussian system of elementary education, and a state system of mass welfare.

franchie on :

"the Prussian system of elementary education" funny, I was told that some Frederik was enlightened by a certain Voltaire, though the latter had to run away because of the preussian harsh habits

Joe Noory on :

Here's one of those "if a tree falls in the woods" questions: if someone feels impugned for someone else telling others in America, that in their opinion, they think their country to be the greates place on earth, would somebody who has never said the same thing need to defend against buffonish over-reactions to it? Fee free to discuss...

Merkel on :

[url=www.anti-cnn.com]So, you have no interest in harming anyone, but are perfectly willing to call other people's pride "self-intoxication", and will cite an "arrogance and ignorance" borne out of repetition in the media.[/url] Comment: Not anyone , Joe! if you notice the pre-condition "No offence to me " , You will comprehensively grasp my points. "Self-intoxication" is not always harmful thus acceptable. Christian force carry out 2 crusades against Islam world basing on its self-intoxication of Christian superiority(Over Islam), Basing on such self-intoxication,European new settlers almost extinct all American Indian people and make the American-Indian's homeland become the new continent. Basing on such self-intoxication of Britain's incomparable culture, Britain succeeds to describe its colonial states as barbarian ,ignorant cultrue-desert. Then Britain can lawfully emancipate those suppressed people by trafficking them to North and south American as salve, by peddling them opium and ammunition to satisfy their instinctive desire. Who will reflect those people's appeals? How can such anti-colonization voice goes on without challenging Western world authority. I can not imagine a native American-Indian give up its souvenir or casino business rushing out from American-Indian Reservation zone to condemn Hollywood's venomous and distorted propaganda. Will then CNN or BBC have journalist nose and dignity to fairly report it. I highly doubt it. I'm willing to interrupt US self-intoxication, call Nancy pelosi and its peer stop your day-dream. US government and congress is run by a total bunch of hypocrites. It never deserve the adjective word "Greatest". Facing the millions of civilian death.(the side-effect of US military occupation in Iraq )

Pat Patterson on :

I'm confused did Merkel just say that the British made the Chinese well-armed drug addicts? The Windors have a lot to answer for if that's the case.

merkel-3 on :

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo] I'm confused did Merkel just say that the British made the Chinese well-armed drug addicts? The Windors have a lot to answer for if that's the case.[/url] Comment Google the internet, USING keyword get repsonse Chinese information rejected here [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo] it means in English: find 593,000 webpages within 0.09 seconds .[/url] if use keyword, get the following response: Chinese information rejected here [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo] it means in English: find 1,740,000 webpages within 0.26 seconds .[/url] I am not sure if use other keyword like will get more qualified results . All the crimes recorded in those web links targets upon UK .

Merkel on :

Keyword lost in the former post, they are: Britain opium trade Britain salve trade UK opium war I use "" before and after the keyword, then the keywords lost. it may conflict with "BBCode format " expression. I found this forum can accept Japanese but can not imput Chinese character. I got response like "Your comment was successfully added. Warning: This comment needs approval before it will be displayed." and "SPAM ....". I once thought i can not send posts here. So i once frequently change accounts to fool the d'mned approval machine . Back to subject. Paterson , I undertand you want to exculpate UK's crime, But you really don't need to blame China and other African states for such crime. It's an insult to these people. Do you need me to remind you which African states you blamed in your posts. UK use violence run its opium and salve trade. If that is ok for you and most western world citizens, then the war anti-drug and anti HR abuses is meaningless. I can not understand: A giant country like UK can do such dirty things, why Colombia, Afghanistan and Burma can not go on its opium plantation, why slavery against children and women in those under-developed countries are condemned by the whole world. Your defending strive does not make UK's imaged better, It do make your credibility and moral standard in doubt. I can not imagine US congress could tell public that drug addicts is those people's own problem. US government have no rights to punish those drug planters,refiners, wholesalers.

merkel on :

Jesus! lost character again. character ">" and character "

Pat Patterson on :

There is absolutely no doubt that China tried to limit the use of opium to the lower classes while banning it from the court and administrative classes though opium use in China was first mentioned in the 15th century which described use of opium going back at least to the 9th Century. Use of opium was soon widespread because of the Moghul conquest of India and the popularity of drug use in China. So blame the Muslims for China's problems with drug use. And that the British forced the Chinese to open their country to imports rather than only allowing exports. Sound familiar? It's easy to find nonsense on the web, I typed in the following; Cinese opium trade=2,920,000 Chinese slave trade=8,970,000 And since there is no doubt that China lost two wars called the Opium Wars I used Chinese opium use for the last search=4,100,000.

Merkel on :

You provide very interesting stuff but i shall say they are all very weak in supporting your points.British blatant crime on opium trade are all written on the wall. Don't fabricate "Muslims opium trade" to me. Western world had defiled Islam and Muslim for thousands of years. It is untrue and unfair. "Make individule child or woman as salve" such kind of crime happened in today's world. Every society have such problems. But large scale slave and opium trade is rare in history. Colonial Britain's enthusiasism and talents in such dirty trade make them the greatest colonial empire. [url=www.anti-cnn.com]"No forever friend , no perpetual enemy , only perpetual Britain interests exist and leave for pursuing"[/url] What we can say to these very selfish British politicians?

Pat Patterson on :

Yes, indeed you say they are weak but you never provide a counter argument or any facts. The fact is that traders and missionaries from the newly conquered areas of the new Caliphate introduced the use of opium into China as early as the 9th Century. No this time either put up or shut up. Facts not opinions. The correct quote from Lord Palmerston, if you had bothered to check before submitting the latest bon mot. "Nations have no permanent friends or allies, only permanent interests." He does not confine his observation solely to Great Britain but to all nations. And the existence of the UN would argue that "...all nations" don't always agree with Palmerston.

Merkel on :

"Nations have no permanent friends or allies, only permanent interests." very helpful, Is this the orignal words from that famous british politician. "permanent" is more fit for this situation. In my posts hereinbefore the word "forever " is ok, The word "perpetual " is wrong. right? Meet you next Monday. I will correct you with more facts . Bye

merkel on :

[url=www.anti-cnn.com]Pat: It's easy to find nonsense on the web, I typed in the following; Cinese opium trade=2,920,000 Chinese slave trade=8,970,000 And since there is no doubt that China lost two wars called the Opium Wars I used Chinese opium use for the last search=4,100,000.[/url] I gave you weblinks about British opium war. But Chinese information contained in those breief description lead to the posts rejected. So I only leave the keywords and google results for your reference. But you disappointed me again , why not read those web pages to know the history between 1839 to 1900. if you use keywords [Paterson opium trade] you got response: 16,000 items within 0.28 sec. Using [Paterson slave trade] you got response:189,000 items within 0.26 sec. The web pages I got here is not evidences to charge Paterson participating in some illeagal and immoral crime. I don't think Google search engine make no sense , I think You , Mr Paterson , seems not correctly understand why I ask you to make Google search. So I make it clear right now. You had Google the web using keywords "Chinese opium war" , And that leave you a illusion that china initiate war for opium trade (considering your inclination embodied by the keyword selection [url=www.anti-cnn.com]Chinese opium trade,Chinese slave trade[/url]), then check several webpages then get to know what the god-cursed war is all about? By the way , You misspell the word Chinese to [url=www.anti-cnn.com]Cinese opium trade[/url], That's why so little webpages response from Google.

Pat Patterson on :

It's not the tool its the user of the tool that becomes foolish. I think you made my case that most of what is on the web is nonsense and that with proper manipulation of the search terms anything can be proven or disproven. I wouldn't bring up spelling mistakes, somethin about pot and kettle. As to Palmerston's quote simply repeat verbatim and then be prepared to defend its propostion. And I'm simply at a loss to accept descriptions of American Indian life on the basis of Hollywood. Does this mean that there are really vampires and that Pu Yi was just a poor misunderstood dilletante?

Merkel on :

You don't wanna read those articles I recommand to you ,do you ? I guess the contents of those history documents will drive you crazy.You did not fully prepare to know a total different GREAT Britain (a bloody and cruel player in politics). Since you had said internet can prove or disprove anything and it seems you don't wanna know anything from you think unreliable source. Then why you ask me provide you with proofs . I had done such things enough. It's time for you prove me that you are more objective and impartial than someone like Neville Maxwell . You havn't told me your feeling about this blatant [url=www.anti-cnn.com]DISTORTION Reports from western media[/url],I don't blame you for ignorance on UK's salve and opium trade , Under such biased and hypocritical propaganda what we can expect from you. P.S As to the issue of misspelling on "Chinese", I know I am not qualified to argue on linguistic things with you . I made triple(quadruple) mistakes than you . "Something about pot and kettle." I really agree with you on this expression. But you know under some very special situation, misspelling is something. I ask you correct the keywords during my Google search, Your mis-spelling result in so less searching results on UK's crimes. That is not a minor error to me.I must remind you there are millions facts can prove UK's opium-trade crimes . Pat,If I stick your pot by accident, I don't mind you kicking out my kettle in return. Believe me , I really think you are good at English not at Politic. A little satire here I hope you copy this message and understand my implict meaning. I think up to now you deliberately ignore my requests several time. Pat, Why don't give up clumsy excuses you made for UK.

Joe Noory on :

YOur point being that if you can find a millenium old item to support you're arguement then, well, that's [i]rayonnement[/i], right? I specifically don't understand your rationalization, and your examples are rather disconnected and genuinely bizarre. At the present, British culture is so hypersensitive about seeming to degrade anyone, that they can hardly even define rightness and wrongness without consulting their internal guilt-trip meter first...

Kevin Sampson on :

'Who will reflect those people's appeals? How can such anti-colonization voice goes on without challenging Western world authority. I can not imagine a native American-Indian give up its souvenir or casino business rushing out from American-Indian Reservation zone to condemn Hollywood's venomous and distorted propaganda. Will then CNN or BBC have journalist nose and dignity to fairly report it. I highly doubt it.' I don't know if this is at all relevant, because I don't understand any of the above, but Mel Gibson's last film, 'Apocalypto' had it’s world premier, with Gibson in attendance, at the Riverwind Casino (Chickasaw tribe) about ten miles from where I live.

Merkel on :

Kevin Casino and souvenir saling is not American indian 's speciality inherited from their ancestor. North America is their homeland and they were excluded from their hibitant areas. Their highly aggressive and cunning characters root in the whole world thanks to Hollywood classic western-movie. There is a thread connect all this individule charge against western world. That is the hegemony of western media , They seize most of international focus to carry out its [url=www.anti-cnn.com]disinformation campaign[/url] against China , russia ... I got no hatred on native American people. I got problem with US government and republican conservative strength. I don't mean to let US people pack their Europe home, I just want to counter attack US politican like Nancy Pelosi. make them like hypocrites. No personal hostility to Paterson,Joe (at least at this very moment), I had to find a target to vent my hatred to Western media's hyprocrisy. Paterson 's stubborn postion in defending UK and US's once crimes, make him perfect guy for me to disclose Great Britain's crimes. Believe or not , I like Paterson in this forum more than anyone else. I got to go for two days vacation, Leave a good opportunity for Paterson to distort my points. I'll meet him next Monday. Bye

Kevin Sampson on :

I can’t speak about all US Indian tribes, but I do know something about the Navajo (largest tribe in the US) and the pueblo tribes of the Southwest. You claim that the Indians were ‘excluded from their habitat areas’. This is not always the case. Certainly the pueblos of the Hopi, Zuni, San Ildefonso, and many other tribes still occupy the same places they did when Coronado first explored the region in 1540. The Navajo were forced out of Dineh’tah in 1864, but returned in 1868 and their reservation still lies within the boundaries of the four sacred mountains. You claim that ‘Casino and souvenir saling is not American indian 's speciality inherited from their ancestor’. These ‘souvenirs’ that you dismiss so lightly are now considered fine art. And yes, they are the tribes ‘speciality inherited from their ancestor’: http://www.garlandsrugs.com/html/twogreyhills.html Being a sheepherding people, the Navajo have a long tradition in making superb textiles. http://www.garlandsrugs.com/html/kachinas.html The Kachina religeon is unique to the Pueblo tribes and especially the Hopi and Zuni. http://www.garlandsrugs.com/html/traditionalsandpaintings.html Ritual use of sandpaintings is unique to the Navajo. http://www.garlandsrugs.com/html/contemppottery.html Common to many tribes in the area. I hope you noticed the prices. You claim that ‘North America is their homeland and they were excluded from their hibitant areas. Their highly aggressive and cunning characters root in the whole world thanks to Hollywood classic western-movie.’ Why the caveat about North America? You don’t think any of the South or Central American tribes were displaced, or do you want to give the Spanish a free pass? At any rate, there is a certain amount of truth about the Indians portrayal in films. But there is also no getting around the fact that many tribes WERE highly aggressive. Do you know why the Pueblo tribes object to the use of the word ‘Anasazi’? Ironically, the opposite is true of the Central American tribes like the Maya and Aztec. For years they were presented as the most sophisticated civilizations in the Americas. Neither Hollywood, nor anyone else, mentioned their ‘unconventional’ religious practices. Whatever else the Spanish may have been guilty of, they did everyone in the Western Hemisphere a favor by exterminating the Mesoamerican star-cult. So the next time you want to rant about genocide or imperialism, do include the Aztec and the Maya. When it came to insane bloodlust, those freaks took a back seat to no-one.

Kevin Sampson on :

I can’t speak about all US Indian tribes, but I do know something about the Navajo (largest tribe in the US) and the pueblo tribes of the Southwest. You claim that the Indians were ‘excluded from their habitat areas’. This is not always the case. Certainly the pueblos of the Hopi, Zuni, San Ildefonso, and many other tribes still occupy the same places they did when Coronado first explored the region in 1540. The Navajo were forced out of Dineh’tah in 1864, but returned in 1868 and their reservation still lies within the boundaries of the four sacred mountains. You claim that ‘Casino and souvenir saling is not American indian 's speciality inherited from their ancestor’. These ‘souvenirs’ that you dismiss so lightly are now considered fine art. And yes, they are the tribes ‘speciality inherited from their ancestor’: http://www.garlandsrugs.com/html/twogreyhills.html Being a semi-nomadic herding people, the Navajo have a long tradition of superb textile making. http://www.garlandsrugs.com/html/kachinas.html The Kachina religeon is unique to the pueblo tribes and especially the Hopi and Zuni. http://www.garlandsrugs.com/html/traditionalsandpaintings.html The ritual use of sandpaintings is also unique to the Navajo. http://www.garlandsrugs.com/html/contemppottery.html Common among all the pueblo tribes. I hope you noticed the prices. You claim that ‘North America is their homeland and they were excluded from their hibitant areas. Their highly aggressive and cunning characters root in the whole world thanks to Hollywood classic western-movie.’ Why the caveat about North America? You don’t think any of the South or Central American tribes were displaced, or do you want to give the Spanish a free pass? At any rate, there is a certain amount of truth about the Indian's portrayal in films. But there is also no getting around the fact that many tribes WERE highly aggressive. Do you know why the Pueblo tribes object to the use of the word ‘Anasazi’? Ironically, the opposite is true of the Central American tribes like the Maya and Aztec. For years they were presented as the most sophisticated civilizations in the Americas. Neither Hollywood, nor anyone else, mentioned their ‘unconventional’ religious practices. Whatever else the Spanish may have been guilty of, they did everyone in the Western Hemisphere a favor by exterminating the Mesoamerican star-cult. So the next time you want to rant about genocide or imperialism, give full credit to the Aztec and the Maya. When it came to insane bloodlust, those freaks took a back seat to no-one.

Anonymous on :

[url=www.anti-cnn.com] Pat Patterson - #2.1.2.2.1.1.1.1 - 2008-04-11 10:46 - Is that the same Neville Maxwell that predicted that India would collapse in the 1960's and was a member of the Australian Communist Party?[/url] I read many news reports about Neville Maxwell , They mentioned that he is a British reporter. There were many India generals complain about Nehru's "forward policy" .There exists an india military investigation group, they research why india encountered debacle in 1962. Their reports never openly published. When De-X-File those documents later, Nehru's forward policy and poor-equiped military forces were the main reasons. I don't know Neville Maxwell 's background when you confirm me that he is a member of Australian Communist Party. I guess in your mind the communist label make his reports unreliable. I found many US Website and Analysis quote Maxwell 's work. Until you prove me you are more informed and more reliable than Neville Maxwell, I will take more seriously on your posts. The disputed area historically belong to Tibet, one of Dalai Lama was born there. India push China to accept outcome of British India's invasion over tibet. The so-called agreement between Britian india , Russia and China didn't sign by China central government. So India had better ask Colonial Britain to invade Tibet once again. I can bet China can handle this r'ogue (not mean india ,refer to Britain) well this time.

HELLO on :

Western media's bias or Dalai Lama's cheat Latest recording from RFI, Radio France International Apr 2 Radio French International, its Chinese broadcast division phone-interviewed Dawa Tsering, the spokesman of China Affairs Dept. of ‘Tibet Government in exile’ about the riots in Lhasa Mar 14, Interview: Hello, Mr Dawa Tsering. Chinese officials repeated their doubts on Dalai Lama’s claim for ‘non-violence’, and questioned that, if really like what Dalai Lama said, why there was no condemnation from him on the violent actions of Tibetans’ killing Han in Lhasa on March 14? Dawa Tsering: First of all, what I must claim is, from start to end, the Tibetans used no violence. From the angle of Tibetans, violence means ‘to hurt one’s life’. (from the beginning to the end) From videos* you may watch Han people were hits/beats, but they were hits/beats only. After the hits/beats, those Hans ran away. It’s beat/hit only, not harming the life. Those, those who were killed, are all accidents. From Communist China’s report, you can clearly find out, they (Hans) all ran upstairs of their houses and hid themselves when Tibetans tamped the doors, and hid. When Tibetans burned their houses, they didn’t escape but hide themselves. The results were burned to death accidentally. While those, who lighted fire, and fired the houses, didn’t know at all that the Hans were hiding upstairs. Therefore, those, who were burned to death, were not only Hans but Tibetans. All of these were accidents, not killing or slaughters. *Remarks: the videos mentioned above are from CCTV, China Central Television, the riots video links here: video taken by police and citizens in Lhasa. 1. 14Mar, 18 innocent people (including some Tibetans) were hit by knife or burned to death, over 300 houses were burned, 382 were hit or injured by the Western said protests for peace. Police were attacked. Fxxk those media and rascals in western countries! 2. 15Mar, Look at the dead people! The scene is horrible! Do you have humanity.

Anonymous on :

hello, things are not so singled colored : manipulation is on both sides [url=http://www.arretsurimages.net/dossier.php?id=64]pics manipulations[/url] [url=http://www.lefigaro.fr/debats/2008/03/31/01005-20080331ARTFIG00001-le-dalai-lamajoue-t-il-sa-derniere-carte-.php]Dalai Lama last card ? (in le Figaro[/url] what I wrote on my place : "I have no particular sympathy or antipathy for the Dalai Lama : he went a few years ago in my country-side ; a meeting was organised in the "prestigious" hotel there ; guess who were invited ? only people that were supposed to be wealthiest, that could make a donation for his policy. I am supposing there that his purposes aren't only of "humanitarism".

Joe Noory on :

Get a look at [url=http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2008/04/forget_it_its_c.html]this bit[/url] or Chinese counter-counter-counter protesting while you're at it. By the way I was a big fan of [url=http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2005/11/further-lack-of-consuming-attention.html]ASI[/url] before RTF killed it.

Joerg - Atlantic Review on :

[b]@ "Merkel" and "ANONYMOUS" Your comments were deleted because you abused the privilege to express your opinions here by linking REPEATEDLY to some strange Chinese website. [/b] This website is unrelated to your comments. For everybody else who is curiuos why I censored these comments. Merkel wrote comments like this [i]Joe: I have yet to see anyone suggesting that the slave trade wasn't wrong. I do recall you trying to paint Europeans as unique in their opposition to it (easy thing to do 200 years late), and having had nothing to do with it, while trying to paint the America that admitted to it's flaws on slavery as being eternally wrong on the matter. I'd also note that when one sees people weighing Germany down with the burden of their empirial past, it is nearly never an American.[/i] And the entire text was turned into a link to an Anti-CNN website. I don't mind that website, but it is an abuse of the opportunity to comment on Atlantic Review, if you disguise the link behind comments. Repeatedly linking to this site is spam. That is not to be tolerated. Moreover, please do not use the name "Merkel" or "Bush" or some other well-known personality. If you are too afraid to use your real name, then at least be a bit creative when inventing a pseudonym.

franchie on :

sorry, I missed to register in : Anonymous - #11.1 - 2008-04-16 11:39 - (Reply)

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